SMG.

[Jordach]

GM, just delete the poll and its locked there and then..

Just make sure you have a screenshot of the poll.

[Lemmy]

@Lemmy

Balance >>>> Realism. Some realism is okay but if every game was completely realistic it wouldn't be fun.

I completely agree. If I was interested in realism, I would be playing ARMAII. Having said that, no one seems to be interested in using the Unreal Tournament weapon set either. The current in game weapons are far from real or balanced.

If one is seeking "rock paper scissors" type of balance, the current weapon set is not going to deliver. For all intents and purposes there really is no need for any weapon other than the rifle at this point. I think the ultimate goal should be to have a good long range weapon that is severely limited at close range, a medium weapon that won't do much for you at long and close range, and a devastating short range weapon that won't work well farther out.

I have to admit I'm fairly happy with the rifle the way it is, and I never use the shotgun or the SMG, but I would be ok with completely eliminating the "from the hip" firing capability of the rifle. I would also be happy with severely limiting the effectiveness of the SMG at far and very close range *EDIT perhaps by both eliminating the "from the hip" ring and bead and the zoom effect of shouldering the weapon, and boosting the lethality of the shotgun at very close range. I don't think those are unrealistic expectations.

[Articsledder]

@Lemmy

Balance >>>> Realism. Some realism is okay but if every game was completely realistic it wouldn't be fun.

I completely agree. If I was interested in realism, I would be playing ARMAII. Having said that, no one seems to be interested in using the Unreal Tournament weapon set either. The current in game weapons are far from real or balanced.

If one is seeking "rock paper scissors" type of balance, the current weapon set is not going to deliver. For all intents and purposes there really is no need for any weapon other than the rifle at this point. I think the ultimate goal should be to have a good long range weapon that is severely limited at close range, a medium weapon that won't do much for you at long and close range, and a devastating short range weapon that won't work well farther out.

I have to admit I'm fairly happy with the rifle the way it is, and I never use the shotgun or the SMG, but I would be ok with completely eliminating the "from the hip" firing capability of the rifle. I would also be happy with severely limiting the effectiveness of the SMG at far and very close range *EDIT perhaps by both eliminating the "from the hip" ring and bead and the zoom effect of shouldering the weapon, and boosting the lethality of the shotgun at very close range. I don't think those are unrealistic expectations.

I just can't really see Ace of Spades working in a 3 way split of weapon balancing, I think Short and Long range are probably the best way to do it.

[theginjaninja09]

The problem with smg is its good at close, long and mid ranges
I made a chart:

long: rifle*>smg>shotgun
mid: smg>rifle>shotgun
short: smg>shotgun>rifle

scores
low scores are OP, high scores are UP
the balance we want is 6

shotgun: 3rd, 3rd, 2nd = 8
rifle: 1st, 2nd, 3rd = 6
smg: 2nd, 1st, 1st = 4

In conculsion, smg is overpowerd, and made the game worse.

*if the user has a degree of skill

[CommieBuffalo]

@Lemmy

Balance >>>> Realism. Some realism is okay but if every game was completely realistic it wouldn't be fun.

I completely agree. If I was interested in realism, I would be playing ARMAII. Having said that, no one seems to be interested in using the Unreal Tournament weapon set either. The current in game weapons are far from real or balanced.

If one is seeking "rock paper scissors" type of balance, the current weapon set is not going to deliver. For all intents and purposes there really is no need for any weapon other than the rifle at this point. I think the ultimate goal should be to have a good long range weapon that is severely limited at close range, a medium weapon that won't do much for you at long and close range, and a devastating short range weapon that won't work well farther out.

I have to admit I'm fairly happy with the rifle the way it is, and I never use the shotgun or the SMG, but I would be ok with completely eliminating the "from the hip" firing capability of the rifle. I would also be happy with severely limiting the effectiveness of the SMG at far and very close range *EDIT perhaps by both eliminating the "from the hip" ring and bead and the zoom effect of shouldering the weapon, and boosting the lethality of the shotgun at very close range. I don't think those are unrealistic expectations.

...and I didn't said those were balanced either. It is just that taking the "as realistic as possible" way is not the best one.
I think that a possible solution would be to remove the SMG and buff the shotgun, making it have a better effective range, damage and being better than now overall. There wouldn't be a Long, medium and close range, there would be the "Rifle" range and the "Shotgun" range, and an area where both overlapse and both weapons have a relatively equal chance of taking out the enemy first.

[Lemmy]

I think that a possible solution would be to remove the SMG and buff the shotgun, making it have a better effective range, damage and being better than now overall. There wouldn't be a Long, medium and close range, there would be the "Rifle" range and the "Shotgun" range, and an area where both overlapse and both weapons have a relatively equal chance of taking out the enemy first.

I could live with that.

[theginjaninja09]

...and I didn't said those were balanced either. It is just that taking the "as realistic as possible" way is not the best one.
I think that a possible solution would be to remove the SMG and buff the shotgun, making it have a better effective range, damage and being better than now overall. There wouldn't be a Long, medium and close range, there would be the "Rifle" range and the "Shotgun" range, and an area where both overlapse and both weapons have a relatively equal chance of taking out the enemy first.

yeah, that would actually work.
but it leaves no room for a new gun.

[rakiru]

...and I didn't said those were balanced either. It is just that taking the "as realistic as possible" way is not the best one.
I think that a possible solution would be to remove the SMG and buff the shotgun, making it have a better effective range, damage and being better than now overall. There wouldn't be a Long, medium and close range, there would be the "Rifle" range and the "Shotgun" range, and an area where both overlapse and both weapons have a relatively equal chance of taking out the enemy first.

yeah, that would actually work.
but it leaves no room for a new gun.

Another gun isn't really needed in that case though, but you could always add a mid-range one if you really wanted a third gun. Something that is weak as shit, but fairly accurate at anything but fog-line.

[theginjaninja09]

Just a quick question.
How much does smg and semi do for a body/limb shot?

[Vucgy]

Just a quick question.
How much does smg and semi do for a body/limb shot?

SMG: Head 75 Body 30 Limb 20
SEMI: Head 100 Body 49 Limb 33

[theginjaninja09]

Just a quick question.
How much does smg and semi do for a body/limb shot?

SMG: Head 75 Body 30 Limb 20
SEMI: Head 100 Body 49 Limb 33

thanks.

[Handles]

Even thought i use the smg almost as much as the rifle, I have to agree that there should be only a close range and a long range weapons and not the smg as the most powerful.

[ThisFrickinSite]

In my honest opinion, the rifle and the SMG both are pretty OP. Rifle is a 1-hit KO in the head, while the rifle is something anyone can get easy kills with. Meanwhile at the shotgun section... For that cause its about the same.

If the majority of weapons are OP, doesn't that make the other ones under powered instead?

[rakiru]

In my honest opinion, the rifle and the SMG both are pretty OP. Rifle is a 1-hit KO in the head, while the rifle is something anyone can get easy kills with. Meanwhile at the shotgun section... For that cause its about the same.

If the majority of weapons are OP, doesn't that make the other ones under powered instead?

Not really - there is still a distinction. For example, absolutely every weapon could be underpowered if it takes a whole clip to the face to kill someone. At the same time, every weapon could be overpowered if shooting them in the foot with a single bullet kills them. Just because two weapons are overpowered, it doesn't mean that the other weapon is actually just underpowered.

[Cajun Style]

100% accuracy out to an 800 block distance, with a spread algorithim and decreased damage beyond this range.

I really like your contribution to the topic, Lemmy. But that distance is way off. That's more than a flat diagonal over the map. The value for the rate of fire for the the rifle: that is based on the theoretical ability of the mechanism, or is that an automatic rifle?
I'm not sure it counts as realism, but I do like the low health. (Or strong weapons.) It makes rushing tactics very ineffective, as they should be. Most games have too much health IMHO... or it could be that I'm just sick of the cliché.
Maybe the SMG could have less headshot damage than body damage? F.i. head: 25%; body: 33.4%. I don't know much about real weapons, but I think there are types of bullets which are, generally speaking in terms of statistics, less deadly when used on somebody's head (with a thick skull in it). There doesn't seem to be much support for this. I can see how you'd like to skillfully aim for somebody's head. On the other hand it would create a gun that feels completely different from the other while playing with it. And it will create scenario's, not necessarily dependent on range, for which one has the advantage over the other. IMHO it's worth trying out.
The original topic isn't up for debate anymore :P SMG is out.
But as this has turned into a general balancing discussion, I'll tell you what I'd like the shotgun to do: massive block damage. I'd like the shotgun to be able to deliver a fatal headshot through a wall when both parties are standing right next to it. That really serves a distinct niche, and I think it will be fun; not just for the one using the shotgun.