This is the communist thread. Talk about communism here.
FAQ Q: What is communism?
A: Communism is a stateless, classless, worker organized & managed society. In other words, it's essentially where everyone has the same amount of wealth.
Q: Isn't communism a dictatorship?
A: No, not at all! Communism does not have totalitarianism in it's definition. It is simply a stateless, classless, and worker-managed society. It can be democratic!
Q: If communism isn't a dictatorship, why are the five remaining communist countries totalitarian?
A: Oh, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, & Cuba? Those countries are FAR from being communist, as they really aren't stateless, classless, or worker organized. Arguably, they aren't even socialist, as their means of production are un-socialist.
Q: Isn't capitalism human nature?
A: No. Read this:
Spoiler:
VANCOUVER, Canada — Biological research increasingly debunks the view of humanity as competitive, aggressive and brutish, a leading specialist in primate behavior told a major science conference.
“Humans have a lot of pro-social tendencies,” Frans de Waal, a biologist at Emory University in Atlanta, told the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
New research on higher animals from primates and elephants to mice shows there is a biological basis for behavior such as cooperation, said de Waal, author of “The Age of Empathy: Nature’s Lessons for a Kinder Society.”
Until just 12 years ago, the common view among scientists was that humans were “nasty” at the core but had developed a veneer of morality — albeit a thin one, de Waal told scientists and journalists from some 50 countries.
But human children — and most higher animals — are “moral” in a scientific sense, because they need to cooperate with each other to reproduce and pass on their genes, he said.
Research has disproved the view, dominant since the 19th century, typical of biologist Thomas Henry Huxley’s argument that morality is absent in nature and something created by humans, said de Waal.
And common assumptions that the harsh view was promoted by Charles Darwin, the so-called father of evolution, are also wrong, he said.
“Darwin was much smarter than most of his followers,” said de Waal, quoting from Darwin’s “The Descent of Man” that animals that developed “well-marked social instincts would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience.”
De Waal showed the audience videos from laboratories revealing the dramatic emotional distress of a monkey denied a treat that another monkey received; and of a rat giving up chocolate in order to help another rat escape from a trap.
Such research shows that animals naturally have pro-social tendencies for “reciprocity, fairness, empathy and consolation,” said de Waal, a Dutch biologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia.
“Human morality is unthinkable without empathy.”
Asked if wide public acceptance of empathy as natural would change the intense competition on which capitalist economic and political systems are based, de Waal quipped, “I’m just a monkey watcher.”
But he told reporters that research also shows animals bestow their empathy on animals they are familiar with in their “in-group” — and that natural tendency is a challenge in a globalized human world.
“Morality” developed in humans in small communities, he said, adding: “It’s a challenge… it’s experimental for the human species to apply a system intended for (in-groups) to the whole world.”
Q: What vocabulary do communists use?
A: These are the five main terms communists use that other people don't understand:
Communism: A term describing a stateless, classless, moneyless society with common ownership of the means of production. "Communism" can also describe the revolutionary movement to create such a society.
Socialism: An umbrella term used to describe social ownership of the means of production. Social ownership can include common ownership, state ownership or collective ownership. "Socialism" can also refer to an intermediate and transitional form of society between capitalism and communism featuring a Dictatorship of the Proletariat (sometimes referred to as "lower" or the "first phase" of communism).
Bourgeoisie: The capitalist class; the ruling class in capitalist society. The social class which owns the means of production and exploits hired labor. The buyers of labor power. This class is made up of a very small minority of the population.
Proletariat: The working class; the class of people in capitalist society who, deprived of any ownership of the means of production, must sell their labor power to the capitalists in order to survive. The exploited class; the sellers of labor power.
Dictatorship of the Proletariat: A state of proletarian rule where the working class organizes to democratically control the means of production, defend against bourgeois reaction, and create the material basis for a gradual transition to communism. "Dictatorship" in this sense does not mean rule by one individual; Marxists view any state as a being under the "dictatorship" of a class. This term is the antithesis of the "Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie" that exists under capitalism where the minority class rules society
Good video to watch about communism:
Last edited by Bigcheecho on Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
BTW, you say that the countries China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, & Cuba aren't communist countries. Has there ever been a "real" communist country as you would describe it?
BTW, you say that the countries China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, & Cuba aren't communist countries. Has there ever been a "real" communist country as you would describe it?
No, not even the USSR. Any expert on this stuff would say the same thing.
rakiru wrote:Yeah, that sounds great in theory, but...
Don't you even dare.
Say why it won't work without using "human nature," "spontaneous rise of leaders," or Mises' economic calculation problem.
I've already presented an arguement against human nature, and I have arguements for the other 2 up my sleeve for debate.
Also,
Communism =/= Socialism
Socialism =/= Obama Plan & Welfare States
NOTE: We all agree that Stalin was an asshat, let's not debate about it.
Last edited by Bigcheecho on Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:25 am, edited 4 times in total.
rakiru wrote:Yeah, that sounds great in theory, but...
Don't you even dare.
The only reason communism hasn't worked is because asshats (It isn't cursing if you're referring to donkeys!) like Stalin ruined communism for us.
Agreed.
The only stalinists I've ever known were 12-year old american boys who thought communism is cool because a lot of people die. -.-
(Oh, and also someone from Bulgaria, whoose father is party leader of the New Bulgarian (Stalinist) Communist Party)
Bigcheecho wrote:Communism =/= Socialism
Communism == Revolutionary Socialism
Last edited by VladVP on Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
rakiru wrote:Yeah, that sounds great in theory, but...
Don't you even dare.
The only reason communism hasn't worked is because asshats (It isn't cursing if you're referring to donkeys!) like Stalin ruined communism for us.
Agreed.
The only stalinists I've ever known were 12-year old american boys who thought communism is cool because a lot of people die. -.-
(Oh, and also someone from Bulgaria, whoose father is party leader of the New Bulgarian (Stalinist) Communist Party)
Yes, cawadooties is ruining what comes to people's minds when they think of communism.
Thanks, Treyarch/Activision.
rakiru wrote:Yeah, that sounds great in theory, but...
Don't you even dare.
Say why it won't work without using "human nature," "spontaneous rise of leaders," or Mises' economic calculation problem.
I've already presented an arguement against human nature, and I have arguements for the other 2 up my sleeve for debate.
Also,
Communism =/= Socialism
Socialism =/= Obama Plan & Welfare States
NOTE: We all agree that Stalin was an asshat, let's not debate about it.
Don't you even dare (double post)... <_<
I didn't argue any of the things you said. You've posted a bunch of theory about why it would work, and I agree with it, but you haven't shown any real example of it working, so my statement stands: it works in theory.
rakiru wrote:Yeah, that sounds great in theory, but...
Don't you even dare.
Say why it won't work without using "human nature," "spontaneous rise of leaders," or Mises' economic calculation problem.
I've already presented an arguement against human nature, and I have arguements for the other 2 up my sleeve for debate.
Also,
Communism =/= Socialism
Socialism =/= Obama Plan & Welfare States
NOTE: We all agree that Stalin was an asshat, let's not debate about it.
Don't you even dare (double post)... <_<
I didn't argue any of the things you said. You've posted a bunch of theory about why it would work, and I agree with it, but you haven't shown any real example of it working, so my statement stands: it works in theory.
Paris Commune. That actually worked very well in the 2 months it existed.
Someone on another forum made another list of what he believes is communism working in the real world, but I haven't researched the other examples, so I can't really provide an opinion on them.
Spoiler:
Primitive communism, the Spanish communes during the Spanish Civil War between 1936 and 1939 (Catalonia and Aragon namely), the Ukrainian Makhnovishchina, the Zapatistas in Chiapas, Israeli kibbutzim, the Paris Commune, Maoist villages, and many other such instances are a good example of how it can work.
White Hot wrote:Bigcheeso, why do you keep saying Communism is Stateless? It can be, but usually it's not.
Statelessness is the goal of communism, where a nation-state is non-existent within society.
I have say, communism is a great idea. People have been devoted to it, but, unfortunately due to human nature (not communism), it has kinda got messed up.
China is basically capitalist now, but considering it starting off with communism and then becoming so powerful is something to take into consideration (even if it's crashing now).
I don't agree with communism, yet I don't disagree either. I just think people need to concentrate on a sub-governmental system which promotes peace. WWIII will inevitably fuck everyone over several times, so I think humanity just needs to change for a peaceful path.
DrDeuce wrote:I have say, communism is a great idea. People have been devoted to it, but, unfortunately due to human nature (not communism), it has kinda got messed up.
China is basically capitalist now, but considering it starting off with communism and then becoming so powerful is something to take into consideration (even if it's crashing now).
I don't agree with communism, yet I don't disagree either. I just think people need to concentrate on a sub-governmental system which promotes peace. WWIII will inevitably fuck everyone over several times, so I think humanity just needs to change for a peaceful path.
I see where you're going. Heck, I 95% agree with it.
Human Nature - Actually, it isn't initial human nature to be greedy. Drop a pen or pencil nearby a baby, and he/she will try and give it back to you, not claim it as his.
Don't agree with communism, don't disagree with communism - I disagree with that, as I am a communist, be we all have a right to opinion.
China is basically capitalist: Yes, yes yes yes! How could China claim to be communist?!
