SMG.

[HoboHob]

As i see it,dropping the SMG would make this a WW1 game (instead of WW2).
personally i love the current dynamics and all the -0.23 version elitist can buzz off...

Nerfing the dmg is unrealistic, its like saying the gun shoots rubber bullets (i.e stormwinds nerfed SMG) but -
spread and rate of fire and magazine capacity are the good points of focus, why not make it like sturmgewehr 44 in DOD,
Slower rate of fire,25-20 bullets per mag,and acrazy spread as its a assault rifle prototype....

my 2 cents

Honestly, I started playing this game in 0.7. And then I went back and played 0.35, 0.35 is so much more superior.

[Waypalm]

I hated the SMG when it was put into the game and I still hate it now. Same with the shotgun. Call me boring but I preferred the game when the rifle was the only weapon. Everyone had the same weapon and had to learn to use it well in order to become good at the game. In my opinion, the addition of the SMG caused people to need less skill in order to play the game. With just the rifle, no one had any advantage over another apart from individual skill.
Unfortunately, it seems that with every FPS that is released, less skill is required. One of the reasons why I was initially drawn to this game was that, in terms of equipment at the player's disposal, everyone was equal. But then that changed and the game began to look more and more like your typical modern FPS.

[Aegix Drakan]

As a fairly new player, my say probably doesn't mean much, but I really like the SMG. It allows for reliable mid/short range combat, and is good for suppressing the enemy and damaging cover. It's not as amazing as a rifle with a good sniper's position (*high fives the Hallway map*), but it's my go to weapon most of the time.

Then I saw this:
SMG damage: Head 75 Body 30 Limb 20

75 for a SMG headshot? That's insane. Headshot damage should be in the 35-45 range, tops. It fires way too fast for anything more than that. You can conceivably kill people with 2 shots with 75 a headshot, and the SMG fires FAST.

My (admittedly pointless) 2 cents?
- Remove or severely nerf headshot damage for the SMG
- lower capacity to 20 OR increase reload time by a tiny bit (I would prefer lower capacity)
- Increase in recoil when firing to make it a bit harder to manage at longer ranges OR Some kind of weapon drop off so that past a certain range, they do way less damage or are WAY less accurate. (I'm fine with either/or/both)
- If possible, make the bullet tracers visible not just on the map, but on the field as well. Or add a muzzle flash or something. Just...something to make snipers go "oh hey, SMG guy over there, if he'd not in cover, time to pop his head like a cherry!"

As for shotgun, I used the thing all of two times so I can't really comment on it at all.

Come on guys. If the game had rifles only then it would be kinda boring...
And if you think the smg is overpowered then I guess we should change its stats, not remove it!

I concur. While waiting for someone to help me get AoS classic running, I tried out the classic CTF mode of the jagex version.

And it was terrible. There was no variety to encounters. It was either sniper duels at long distance (that usually rewarded campers), or panicked clicking while bunny hopping at short range.

SMG and shotguns at least allow for suppression and flanking tactics to be viable. They add some variety. They ENCOURAGE flanking and support fire by their nature of not being long range weapons.

In my opinion, the addition of the SMG caused people to need less skill in order to play the game. With just the rifle, no one had any advantage over another apart from individual skill.

And...needing less skill is always a bad thing? If a game was pure skill, then the new players would quickly give up on the game, since they keep dying too fast and are unable to LEARN those skills because they keep getting murdered over and over again. If you want the game to attract new players at all, then you need to allow for some sort of method for new players to get the hang of the game without being totally dominated by the skilled players.

And you know what? In the week or so that I've been playing this game, I've actually slowly been using the rifle more and more. Especially in Hallway, where I can make sniper nests all along the walls and flank anything going down the main hall, as well as pinning down the enemy spawn point whenever possible. I get WAY more kills with a good perch and the rifle than I do with the SMG (which also alerts everyone in the area to your presence, if they look at the map when they hear the whoosh of SMG rounds)

I think there was an Extra Credits episode that talked about the skill balance phenomenon... (These guys do a lot of game analysis, and they're usually right on the mark)

Hang on...where is it....
Ah here it is:

Spoiler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6fVHZFjnmA

I completely agree. If I was interested in realism, I would be playing ARMAII. Having said that, no one seems to be interested in using the Unreal Tournament weapon set either.

Y-you're not implying there's some mod for AoS that has the Unreal weapon set, are you? Because that would kick ass. I LOVE the unreal series (specifically the first one, actually), and I really like the weapons therein.

[Paratrooper]

Y-you're not implying there's some mod for AoS that has the Unreal weapon set, are you? Because that would kick ass. I LOVE the unreal series (specifically the first one, actually), and I really like the weapons therein.

http://forumarchive2.spadille.net/viewt ... =71&t=5121

[Aegix Drakan]

Y-you're not implying there's some mod for AoS that has the Unreal weapon set, are you? Because that would kick ass. I LOVE the unreal series (specifically the first one, actually), and I really like the weapons therein.

http://forumarchive2.spadille.net/viewt ... =71&t=5121

Oh heck yes! :D

I've already replaced my SMG with the dead space plasma gun (and replaced the sound effects accordingly), so this gives me a more awesome rifle and shotgun and skins. :D

Thanks a bunch!

[theginjaninja09]

As a fairly new player, my say probably doesn't mean much, but I really like the SMG. It allows for reliable mid/short range combat, and is good for suppressing the enemy and damaging cover. It's not as amazing as a rifle with a good sniper's position (*high fives the Hallway map*), but it's my go to weapon most of the time.

Then I saw this:
SMG damage: Head 75 Body 30 Limb 20

75 for a SMG headshot? That's insane. Headshot damage should be in the 35-45 range, tops. It fires way too fast for anything more than that. You can conceivably kill people with 2 shots with 75 a headshot, and the SMG fires FAST.

My (admittedly pointless) 2 cents?
- Remove or severely nerf headshot damage for the SMG
- lower capacity to 20 OR increase reload time by a tiny bit (I would prefer lower capacity)
- Increase in recoil when firing to make it a bit harder to manage at longer ranges OR Some kind of weapon drop off so that past a certain range, they do way less damage or are WAY less accurate. (I'm fine with either/or/both)
- If possible, make the bullet tracers visible not just on the map, but on the field as well. Or add a muzzle flash or something. Just...something to make snipers go "oh hey, SMG guy over there, if he'd not in cover, time to pop his head like a cherry!"

As for shotgun, I used the thing all of two times so I can't really comment on it at all.

Come on guys. If the game had rifles only then it would be kinda boring...
And if you think the smg is overpowered then I guess we should change its stats, not remove it!

I concur. While waiting for someone to help me get AoS classic running, I tried out the classic CTF mode of the jagex version.

And it was terrible. There was no variety to encounters. It was either sniper duels at long distance (that usually rewarded campers), or panicked clicking while bunny hopping at short range.

SMG and shotguns at least allow for suppression and flanking tactics to be viable. They add some variety. They ENCOURAGE flanking and support fire by their nature of not being long range weapons.

In my opinion, the addition of the SMG caused people to need less skill in order to play the game. With just the rifle, no one had any advantage over another apart from individual skill.

And...needing less skill is always a bad thing? If a game was pure skill, then the new players would quickly give up on the game, since they keep dying too fast and are unable to LEARN those skills because they keep getting murdered over and over again. If you want the game to attract new players at all, then you need to allow for some sort of method for new players to get the hang of the game without being totally dominated by the skilled players.

And you know what? In the week or so that I've been playing this game, I've actually slowly been using the rifle more and more. Especially in Hallway, where I can make sniper nests all along the walls and flank anything going down the main hall, as well as pinning down the enemy spawn point whenever possible. I get WAY more kills with a good perch and the rifle than I do with the SMG (which also alerts everyone in the area to your presence, if they look at the map when they hear the whoosh of SMG rounds)

I think there was an Extra Credits episode that talked about the skill balance phenomenon... (These guys do a lot of game analysis, and they're usually right on the mark)

Hang on...where is it....
Ah here it is:

Spoiler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6fVHZFjnmA

I completely agree. If I was interested in realism, I would be playing ARMAII. Having said that, no one seems to be interested in using the Unreal Tournament weapon set either.

Y-you're not implying there's some mod for AoS that has the Unreal weapon set, are you? Because that would kick ass. I LOVE the unreal series (specifically the first one, actually), and I really like the weapons therein.

I agree. headshots should be 45.
The only real problem is the block destroying capabilities.
I was playing pinpoint, and I was crouching under a 3-block high and a 3-block thick wall. three smg noobs destroyed it. completely.
I was pretty pissed.

[Tiki]

Pinpoint is not really a balanced map though.

[TB_]

The block-destroying ability for smg is terrible for small maps gameplay.
Actually, I wish bullets couldn't destroy blocks, at all. Which was the case, some time ago.

[TheSifodias]

Honestly, I've seen the changes first hand to the smg, and I have too say that it's mostly on-par with the rifle. Though I'm still confused as to why the rifle is not a perfect 50 damage.

@gingninja: Three dudes can destroy any wall with any weapon. You're only expected to have 1-1 fights, even under cover.

[BR_]

I'm working on a SMG for iceball, let me know what you think balance-wise (beep me on IRC if you want to playtest):

• 15 headshot damage, 10 otherwise
  25 bullets in clip, 500 in reserve (up from 125, which was too low)
  No scope/zoom
  500 RPM
  Low recoil
  Medium spread

[Name Here]

I'm working on a SMG for iceball, let me know what you think balance-wise (beep me on IRC if you want to playtest):

• 15 headshot damage, 10 otherwise
  25 bullets in clip, 125 in reserve (thinking of increasing both)
  No scope/zoom
  500 RPM
  Low recoil
  Medium spread

by all means please dont make it an airsoft simulator

[Sonarpulse]

It's not an airsoft simulator, It killed me

[GreaseMonkey]

I'm working on a SMG for iceball, let me know what you think balance-wise (beep me on IRC if you want to playtest):

• 15 headshot damage, 10 otherwise
  25 bullets in clip, 125 in reserve (thinking of increasing both)
  No scope/zoom
  500 RPM
  Low recoil
  Medium spread

by all means please dont make it an airsoft simulator

hence the low damage values

[Name Here]

bullets kill, baby

[TheGeekZeke101]

Why not have an smg with lower bullet damage and high recoil? I enjoyed the smg when it was like that.