Exactly how bad is the 0.75 weapon balance?

[Fluttershy]

The rifle is already a bitch to use at close range. That's where the spade comes in.

So youre telling me that the rifle has just a hard of a time killing people at close range as shotgun does at long range?

maybe making them inaccurate with hip fire could work, but I don't really know if that would help. Giving the shotgun a more consistent spread and maybe a little bit more damage to just make that better at close range would also be good. it might be a better idea to just focus on making the shotgun more powerful at close range so that the other two weapons are still alright.

Making the shotgun more powerful doesnt change the fact that smg and rifle are both incredibly powerful at close range themselves(although a less retarded spread algorithm would be appreciated). And just changing hipfire accuracy isnt enough when there is zero delay going to the iron sight, which isnt debilitating at close range at all.

[Priok]

making the shotgun more powerful and capable of competing with the semi and smg at close range would make it more balanced, the semi and smg don't have to be bad for it to be balanced. maybe adding an ADS time for all of the guns, where the shotgun gets it fastest and the semi gets it slowest? Lowering its fire rate might also help a little bit, as well as its and the smg's recoil, but that might not matter. I don't really know, what do you think about it ?


I just saw the edit, GreaseMonkey. I like the sound of it too, nice job. Maybe buffing the shotgun's movement speed could also help, but I think the biggest problem is just that it's so inaccurate and the spread is so random.

[[Bay12]Jake]

Anyhow, the reason why it's so easy to rack up headshot after headshot is because the people you are shooting at are noobs. If you were having issues with this, you should have played on Sham's more often (IIRC around that time the players were pretty damn good).

Yeah... no. Even if "play on a server with no newbies" was a remotely constructive suggestion, which it isn't, being able to consistently make headshots from the very edge of visible range on moving targets is not a sign that the other guy is a noob. If we go back to the days when the only map that didn't sprout more campers than Bug Jam by ten minutes in was Pinpoint, I'm going to put a tenner down on the Jagex version.

So youre telling me that the rifle has just a hard of a time killing people at close range as shotgun does at long range?

Arguably, yes. The shotgun can insta-kill with a centre-mass shot at knife-fighting range, but the rifle only does that with a headshot, and chances are you won't get time to fire twice.

[Fluttershy]

Arguably, yes. The shotgun can insta-kill with a centre-mass shot at knife-fighting range, but the rifle only does that with a headshot, and chances are you won't get time to fire twice.

Thats not what I'm asking. I'm asking if you find it just as easy, or easier to kill people at fogline with shotgun than you do with killing people with the rifle at close range.

This is my main concern. Every balance thread always seems to be about how over powered smg is, but they neglect to include the other main offender in as well. Yes, I almost exclusively use shotgun. No, I'm not saying rifle is overpowered because I die to rifle at long range. I expect to, as its the role of the rifle to kill people at long range. It shouldnt however, be a massive risk to try and kill a rifler at close range because they too possess an instakill thats by no means hard to accomplish. Id love to see rifle be as weak close range as the sniper is in tf2, seeing as there isnt too much of an excuse when the rifler has the spade to fall back on.

[Priok]

what do you mean by like in TF2? do you mean it should do less damage when it's not scoped, or what? I am pretty sure the TF2 sniper rifle does the same damage at close range, it just does more when you're scoped in. I am not really sure what could be done to the semi. I agree that it is also too good at close range, I just think that the main problem is with the smg, but you are right, we shouldn't ignore the semi's power

[[Bay12]Jake]

Personally, I think a lot of the balance issues with both weapons could be eliminated simply by making the hitbox for a headshot narrower by about a third.

[Sasquatch]

I don't ever remember the semi being overpowered...

/FPS noob

[TheSifodias]

I'm going to say no for any three shot bursts or other forms that would limit smg firepower. Why? Because the smg has always been encouraged to fire faster than every other light firearm in existence. However, what's seriously jacked up about the smg in .75 isn't the accuracy of the gun, it's the recoil. So, increase the recoil by a huge amount, increase the fire rate by a whole bunch (remember, recoil goes up more shots are taken), and increase spread a tad. This way, you'll have a weapon that is gold at close quarters, but BS at any range past mid.

[Priok]

the problem with making the SMG fire really quickly with its current damage, even with high recoil, is that it'd be better than the shotgun anyway. I don't think high fire rate + high damage is a good method of balancing, it's more like high fire rate + low damage or low fire rate + high damage. the SMG's fire rate is also very high compared to the other weapons, so that it'll be faster than them even with its current rate of fire.

[MrHaaax]

the problem with making the SMG fire really quickly with its current damage, even with high recoil, is that it'd be better than the shotgun anyway. I don't think high fire rate + high damage is a good method of balancing, it's more like high fire rate + low damage or low fire rate + high damage. the SMG's fire rate is also very high compared to the other weapons, so that it'll be faster than them even with its current rate of fire.

Well, more recoil and lower damage is a better idea.
Or what he said. ^

[GreaseMonkey]

As I've said before, I've dicked with the recoil on the SMG and if you turn it up too high it just becomes unusable shit. (EDIT: I've said the first half before, although not really the second half. My bad.)

Anyway, here's an idea for the shotgun:



Basically, cone-sphere intersection, then finding the area between two circles, and dividing that by the area of the cone. This will get you your damage falloff in the range [0,1]. Multiply that by your intended damage, and there you go.

In other words, cone = shotgun spread, and sphere = your head.

To make stuff interesting I think I might just apply it to everyone instead of having that bug where you shoot player #11 and kill player #8 who happens to be standing right behind him. (now WHY have I not heard of this bug until now‽‽‽)

[TheSifodias]

Where exactly did you consider the distance between the tip of the cone and its impact at the sphere? 10-30 blocks?

the problem with making the SMG fire really quickly with its current damage, even with high recoil, is that it'd be better than the shotgun anyway. I don't think high fire rate + high damage is a good method of balancing, it's more like high fire rate + low damage or low fire rate + high damage. the SMG's fire rate is also very high compared to the other weapons, so that it'll be faster than them even with its current rate of fire.

Well, I have to agree with you on that one, but perhaps then you should increase the speed and damage of the shotgun bullet versus a less quick smg bullet. That way, the shotgun bullet hits first, but if it misses, the smg gets the kill. (In an exact reaction time, perfect accuracy situation.)

[Tek2]

Well, I have to agree with you on that one, but perhaps then you should increase the speed and damage of the shotgun bullet versus a less quick smg bullet. That way, the shotgun bullet hits first, but if it misses, the smg gets the kill. (In an exact reaction time, perfect accuracy situation.)

I honestly think that would be just like adding lag to the game. (annoying and frustrating)
Also it's really unrealistic to have any noticeable travel time on bullet at the ranges of AoS.

[Priok]

To make stuff interesting I think I might just apply it to everyone instead of having that bug where you shoot player #11 and kill player #8 who happens to be standing right behind him. (now WHY have I not heard of this bug until now‽‽‽)

you used an interrobang, +COOL POINTS

that shotgun idea sounds pretty good, keep up the good ideas.

[Vucgy]

Its much up to the player.
A SMG can be great at long and at mid/close ranges
But a skilled Rifle'r will kill the SMG from far - mid and even in close tunnels with a fast headshot.
I think the Rifle and SMG are totally balanced that any weapon get just a bit weaker the other would totally dominate .
Now for the Forgotten weapon The Shotgun it needs really really a great boost. :/

And i think The semi should stay a Sniper rifle the Smg a Assault rifle and the shotgun with cotton ammo should be boosted.