What's going on?

[longbyte1]

Also if we implement a mediocre AI, the game can keep on existing even with 5 players. I still play Infiltration 2.9 CE, even though it is at least 5 years totally dead (hasn't been very much alive back then, too). Just that it has some nice AI that doesn't suck too much.

A few years back I thought of exactly this. At that time I did not have the experience to actually create AI but I started slowly working on a client implementation in JavaScript anyway. My imagination ran aloose: if I could make excellent AI, I could start a clan of "noobs", watch everybody get rekt in League, and then reveal how I did it. Built-in inaccuracies and limitations would prevent any detection of ESP, because the AI would hypothetically only be able to view the map and within its line of sight, perform some limited communication, and have a reasonable (and adjustable) hit/miss percentage. The bot could also build prefabs, and other bots could join in or defend as they are building.

I thought about a design for such a system of bots for a very long time, and I looked at some dumb bots some people around here made in Python. But I wanted the "unauthorized" approach, so I was not inclined to create a serverside script. I wanted a clientside approach that would be controlled by the bot master's computer, so that I could simply and inconspicuously deploy three or four well balanced bots on a server. The problem, of course, is that there is a limit for clients per IP address.

The problem in the holistic sense when I envisioned this concept was not the algorithmic portion as it was the implementation and the time that it would take to complete this undertaking, which I repeatedly underestimated. Moreover, I was not familiar with three-dimensional A* or machine learning concepts. I was eager to learn them, which is really what matters. But time always turned out to be the greatest deciding factor in all of this. My time was always fragmented; 15 minutes doing this, 15 minutes doing that, rather than a solid slot of 3 hours of project time. And due to school, my free time varies from 3 nice hours of relaxation to absolutely nothing.

Many of you think that this is my excuse all the time for not being able to do anything. But it's true, and so my disposition to commit to things has fallen. That's why I never carried out the whole bot thing in the first place. I just did the backend and that was it. You want to pressure me into doing it for that AoS of the Future project, fine. You want to pressure me into doing it so I can fill your servers with future-proofness, fine. You want me to do it for the betterment of all your little FPS projects, fine.

Suffice to say, a well scripted bot would be perfect in imperfection. But I am not one to do it.

[bloodfox]

+1 to longbyte1 All well said.

[Chameleon]

My imagination ran aloose: if I could make excellent AI, I could start a clan of "noobs", watch everybody get rekt in League, and then reveal how I did it.

You sick bastard! :P

... But I am not one to do it.

Well... If you say so. But I believe you would be able to contribute to some existing AI --- if we make something semi-decent, I believe you'd be able to make it almost-decent :)
I can extract AI script files from the same Infiltration, just to see what the code looks like.

people played this game cuz it was super simple and that's what you guys got goin for you

True. Also add the bounded cube feeling and grandma's rig.
But sometimes I wish one could employ more diverse tactics. There are semi-successful scripts for adding in mortars, HMGs and tanks - they show that we lack diversity. We don't need diversity that ArmA has, but we do need, for example, more specialized weaponry - like bolt-action for sniping and mortar for team support.
Also to put it in another words: AoS's learning curve is gentle, but at the same time almost infinite. It is easy for newbies to get a hang of it, but very hard (or time-consuming) to master (like bunker layout or babel tower).

[Shia LaBeouf]

aos is shallow as fuck and the only factor in deciding who will win is ability to point at head

[Chameleon]

true that. for me, one of the most hated aspect of the game. legs&arms practically don't even "exist"

[bloodfox]

You know out of my time playing Uncharted 4 beta multiplayer (sorry, I'm a long term Uncharted/Naughty Dog fan) I felt that I enjoyed the multiplayer much more than other games. It got me addicted to it and I kept on playing. Except I was playing more than of when I play ace of spades. Now of course, ace of spades is already outdated and uncharted 4 has so much more features. Here's what I personally noticed that made my gaming experience hilarious and down right awesome:
-diversity of takedowns. You can really do a lot of different attacks, including shooting with a shotgun while grabbing onto a vine.
-The maps were so fun. Very different, of course there was only like 3-4 maps but they were so down right fun and diverse. One looking like a beat up town to another looking like an amazing ancient ruin/tomb.
-Team work. This was the most GOLDEN part of this game. In order to heal, you can't heal yourself, you don't have a specific class to heal (although as a perk you can spawn a character to heal anybody on your team.) but instead you NEED to heal others. It's awesome. You always say "dang, good thing I have these guys here for healing me. I owe them lots." You especially say that if you're on the brink of your HP bar. Lol.
-All load outs are crazily balanced. Even the perks. You can make your own load outs (like CoD, in a way) without saying "dang that assault rifle is overpowered".
But back to stubborn old ace of spades. I personally wouldn't want load outs like CoD, heck no. I want foliage that you can hide in, I want diverse maps instead of sticking to the same CS maps. (Honestly I think that CS maps should die... We don't need another counter strike.) And lastly which I feel most strongly about is healing. I swear if you go into the line of fire with a couple of your team mates it would be awesome. You would get hurt but easily one of your squad mates would be able to heal you. "Well, what do you do if that portugal just wants to use his hacks instead of healing you?" Don't heal him back. In uncharted 4 there was this one guy who didn't want to heal. We voice chatted with him and he was like 'f*ck off'. So we didn't heal him when he needed it most and he changed his mind, lol.
that's my opinion.
-

[Shia LaBeouf]

there were a lot of diverse maps but noone ever put them on

[bloodfox]

Yeah, that's what I mean. :)

[LeCom]

aos is shallow as fuck and the only factor in deciding who will win is ability to point at head

AoS's problem number #1 and the main reason why BnS and AoS are dying. Since you can't just forbid SMGs and have a gg with rifles; heck you even HAVE to leave SMGs enabled so at least some people will use them and you won't have stupid headshit spam.

@longbyte: Gib pathfinder and I'll start writing a beautiful AI.

[Chameleon]

+1 to foliage. I've been thinking of some optimized ways to add it to NLC, and to make all players see same foliage.

I say we need loadouts... But I am not sure what CoD loadouts look like. I say players should be able to choose, into limited slots, some accesories like spade and weapons like rifle, pistol, grenades, AT. Also accessories like extra ammo, medkit, helmet/vest... But no perks, no bs like that. Maybe:
three tool/accessory slots - spade/block/helmet/armour/extraammo/medkit
two weapon slots - claymore(for badasses)/rifle/HMG/Mortar/pistol/grenades/ATlauncher
two accessory slots - helmet/armour/extraammo/medkit
Additional loadout rules: no double spades, no double armour/helmet, no double rifles/HMGs/Mortars/ATlaunchers

Also, let's introduce bleeding system, which would normally account for 50% damage done. For example, you get shot by rifle into arm, you instantly receive 20 HP damage and bleeding effect. And if you instanty begin bandaging yourself, you should receive about 10-20 additional damage, if someone helps bandaging you receive less damage. Also other players, including enemies (for fun), are able to heal you back half the instant damage?
So: you jog along with 100HP
you get damaged, receive 20HP damage plus bleeding == 80 HP
you bleed to 60 HP, bandaging stops further bleeding
Teammate heals you back to 90 HP (20/2 = 10; 100-10 = 90)

We should discuss this in the google doc... Titanpad doesn't have this much space.

[Shia LaBeouf]

maybe lets stop shitting out retarded ideas of overhauling whole game that are nowhere near being possible unless we are talking of shit quality scripts like the ones so far

[Kuunikal]

+1 to foliage. I've been thinking of some optimized ways to add it to NLC, and to make all players see same foliage.

I say we need loadouts... But I am not sure what CoD loadouts look like. I say players should be able to choose, into limited slots, some accesories like spade and weapons like rifle, pistol, grenades, AT. Also accessories like extra ammo, medkit, helmet/vest... But no perks, no bs like that. Maybe:
three tool/accessory slots - spade/block/helmet/armour/extraammo/medkit
two weapon slots - claymore(for badasses)/rifle/HMG/Mortar/pistol/grenades/ATlauncher
two accessory slots - helmet/armour/extraammo/medkit
Additional loadout rules: no double spades, no double armour/helmet, no double rifles/HMGs/Mortars/ATlaunchers

Also, let's introduce bleeding system, which would normally account for 50% damage done. For example, you get shot by rifle into arm, you instantly receive 20 HP damage and bleeding effect. And if you instanty begin bandaging yourself, you should receive about 10-20 additional damage, if someone helps bandaging you receive less damage. Also other players, including enemies (for fun), are able to heal you back half the instant damage?
So: you jog along with 100HP
you get damaged, receive 20HP damage plus bleeding == 80 HP
you bleed to 60 HP, bandaging stops further bleeding
Teammate heals you back to 90 HP (20/2 = 10; 100-10 = 90)

We should discuss this in the google doc... Titanpad doesn't have this much space.

Why not keep it simple?

[Priok]

I agree with Shia, but it's still fun to think about ideas and possibilities, and it doesnt cause any harm

@chameleon, I think those are cool ideas but some(like armor) might be a bit extreme, I guess it depends on the rest of the game really. When I first played AoS I thought that it'd be cool to have something replace grenades like satchel charges, binoculars, medical/ammo supplies, pistol, maybe barbed wire. It could also be cool to have flashlights or night vision if there was a day/night cycle. I know lots of people posted stuff like this too on the original forum, for a while I thought we were actually getting satchel charges :P and there was the pyspades day/night cycle thing, but I think that just changed sky color and not lighting

Armor/helmets could probably work though, depending on how the rest of the game played and if they had enough penalties. I think giving too many options in a loadout would make the game too complicated, but these are all only ideas anyway

[longbyte1]

Gib pathfinder

???

[Chameleon]

Hmm I'm thinking that armour might actually be illogical for time period (prolonged WWI) chosen. Practically no one wore a vest at that time, because they were very impractical heavy sheets of metal.
But there should be some basic loadout options. For example:
Assaulting -- grab spade/helmet/grenades;
Holding off a bunker -- grab blocks/more ammo/grenades;
Going behind enemy lines -- carry less items, spade + scoped rifle + pistol.
Support role (Mortar etc.) -- grab a medkit to also heal up team mates

Ofc this system would need a lot of experimenting. But the basic, completely uncustomizeable 3 loadouts are just not enough considering the infinite amount of strategies available with changing terrain. Snipers don't carry nades, that's what I'm saying.