why we need to make our own client (among other things)

[LeCom]

You still haven't removed PySpades/PySnip from the vote.

both are open source, so they can both plausably be used to make a new game, but that would be hell on earth. both are made by different people, and though they may both be open source, both of the source codes are in different languages, and are completely fucked up. don't worry though, if it goes to that, we're more fucked than i thought.

But it doesn't matter if someone uses PySnip or writes a new server.

[epicfacethe3rd]

Finished the tools, released a stable version of each.
feelsgood.jpg

Stiivais, this is some really fascinating stuff. Would you mind keeping me up to date?

In 0.60, the drunken cam and the too high mouse accuracy were removed, which imho started all this shit. Before, it was harder to headshot somebody, which removed the emphasis from killing, and made people build and cap the intel and care more about tactics/strategy and engineering than weapons and how to kill someone :P

I agree with the need for being tactical but I don't think the idea should be to reduce kills to a matter of luck (though I certainly see your argument; a gamemode with weird accuracy could be a lot of fun to play as you describe it). Instead, we need kills to either be more of a punishment (not recommended, wave spawning is terrible) or have terrain be more durable (which would be my recommendation). Being able to dig through terrain is great but when your bunker can be destroyed by a couple of SMG sprayers it just doesn't serve much a purpose.

It's harder to hack a game if updates change specific code and data. It's dependent on the update itself, but slightest changes make existing hacks definitely not compatible; structural changes would make it harder to "update" a hack.

Certain structural changes would eliminate many kinds of hacks but I'm not sure to what extent. Updating the vulnerability should ideally eliminate the vulnerability. Just changing code for the sake of making hacks harder is pointless. Security through obscurity is a myth.

Maybe related, maybe not, but AFAIK there's no actual hack for 0.76 (the reason may just be the low popularity tho')

Yeah that would be it (though I don't know how much 0.76 differs from 0.75, so it's possible that it involves certain structural changes).

It's also a bit of motivation to write a hack/to use hacks if the game always stays the same. You start getting bored of the same stuff, so you want to play it "a different way".

I don't know if I believe that. Most skiddies I see cheating are just doing it to either peeve people off or to look good at a game that they are terrible at. I don't think anyone who takes the game seriously would get a kick out of cheating. There's not even a high-score board or anything.

Btw, it's pretty easy to hack a game, so you should forget about coding the client in a way that is hard to hack or such.

Yes, I agree. Security by obscurity is a myth.

first off, keep me updated too, tai. lecom probably would be interested as well, if he understood the potential. secondly, the point is not to prevent them totally, but to discourage them. yes, anything can be hacked, given time, but if it takes more than ten minutes, I seriously doubt the twelve-year-old kiddes will try.

[epicfacethe3rd]

What I am referring to is that changes would make existing hacks incompatible, so idiots would have to make new ones after each update.

What I'm trying to tell you is that just changing code doesn't all of a sudden nullify the exploits that already exist in it. If a door is unlocked in a house it doesn't matter if I lock a window, the door is still open.

you do realize forums where people share the source for game hacks exist, right?

[Tai]

I never said the opposite; just that after changing the client code a bit, douchebags would have to release new hacks (just like 0.75 hacks not working in 0.76, although both clients are very similar and aimbots/ESP/norec are still possible).

You're saying the exact opposite then. If I release an update that is only graphical changes, there's no need to release new 'hacks'.

Getting better at standart AoS = capping the intel more. In general I'd even say that people are getting worse at that since they just camp near the base instead of trying to infiltrate it.

I tend to agree with you, though I'm definitely more of a TDM guy than CTF.

From what I've heard from some veterans, players were still trying to play like in the classic AoS when the versions were around 0.60-0.70 (I joined 1-2 weeks before 0.75 came out). Just after 0.75 was released, it stayed like that at first and then slowly turned into what it is now. The mood in the community changed, everyone sees AoS as something similar to "CoD with voxels" and any player will try to play it like that, since the game kind of supports this way of playing. So unless you change something in it to make building and tactics useful again, it won't be played any other way.
Crouch-spamming has always been used, since it was possible any time.

AoS is nothing like CoD. Counterstrike sure, but nothing like CoD. The big mood change has just been in the past year or so. I noticed it first with Babel; traditional game modes just weren't as popular anymore. Crouch-spamming evolved because it worked. It wasn't really used in 0.70 by players outside of the GoonHaven servers.

The idea that people were still playing 'classic AoS' back in 0.70 is a bit of a misnomer; you were still getting people who would run in with grenades just for spite. I do agree there's been a general shift in the attitudes of the majority of players but I disagree with your insistence that the solution is to simply tell those players 'my bat, my ball, I'm going home.' Games are meant to be played. Just because you don't like the way people are playing it, doesn't mean you have any grounds to be stopping them. What we need (broken-record dead horse, I know) is an improved community, and part of that is a larger community. I'd be glad to see some people playing traditional AoS, but the fact is we just don't have enough people to support that right now.

[Tai]

What I am referring to is that changes would make existing hacks incompatible, so idiots would have to make new ones after each update.

What I'm trying to tell you is that just changing code doesn't all of a sudden nullify the exploits that already exist in it. If a door is unlocked in a house it doesn't matter if I lock a window, the door is still open.

you do realize forums where people share the source for game hacks exist, right?

I don't understand how that's relevant or contradicts anything I said. If the exploit exists and something irrelevant to the exploit is changed there's no reason you need to 'update' the exploit. I know people share hacks, sure, but what I'm saying is that arbitrary updates don't make exploits go away. LeCom's argument seemed to be that if we had an actively developed game that it would make the hackers go away. This simply isn't true though.

[Tai]

what puzzles me is how the Spanish and Brazilians have found a game where the forums are in English, the server names are in English, the server MOTDs are in English, the text is in English, but the two are still the most predominate of them all.
now that's determination. if only our government was that compelled to fight corruption.

Brazilians and Hispanic players (they are rarely actually Spanish nationals) deal with ridiculously high tariffs on video games, which is why they are so prevalent on F2P games. Count in the fact that we attract a lot of kids who can't afford Minecraft and we're set up to have a pretty brutal community (namely children who don't speak the same language as us). I used to really hate them (they don't vote, they rarely work with others, etc) until I realized it really does just come down to the language barrier.

The whole idea that Brazilians/Polaks put out a higher proportion of trolls only exists because you notice when someone is a Brazilian/Polak more often because they speak a different language than you do.

you know there are brazilian people and spanish people that speak english and then tell friends about the game and they download it and choose a random server

Sums it up nicely.
TL;DR: Most Brazilians are children who can't afford to play other videogames.

thank you for clearing up what i was trying to say. the OP smg is nerfed at long range in .76, making it akin to the shotgun. what should happen is the rifle have obscene damage at close quaters, and still 1hk at long, provided you get a headshot.

I accept your premise but reject your conclusions. I liked the weapon balance in 0.70, with the possible exception of making blocks stronger to the SMG.

[LeCom]

I never said the opposite; just that after changing the client code a bit, douchebags would have to release new hacks (just like 0.75 hacks not working in 0.76, although both clients are very similar and aimbots/ESP/norec are still possible).

You're saying the exact opposite then. If I release an update that is only graphical changes, there's no need to release new 'hacks'.

You are no hacker, so you can't know that. But you only need to change a few bytes to prevent .dll hacks from working. It's a piece of cake to update a .dll after too small changes, but old hacks don't work anymore.

The whole idea that Brazilians/Polaks put out a higher proportion of trolls only exists because you notice when someone is a Brazilian/Polak more often because they speak a different language than you do.

I wouldn't say that. As the admin of 2 servers, I do see more brazilians and spaniards hacking than anyone else. And some of these are even openly talking about hacks, admitting them, asking where to get them, thinking that no one can ban them because no one understands the shit they spam, and votekicking other people to camouflage their hax. No one else is so cheecky.

[epicfacethe3rd]

What I am referring to is that changes would make existing hacks incompatible, so idiots would have to make new ones after each update.

What I'm trying to tell you is that just changing code doesn't all of a sudden nullify the exploits that already exist in it. If a door is unlocked in a house it doesn't matter if I lock a window, the door is still open.

you do realize forums where people share the source for game hacks exist, right?

I don't understand how that's relevant or contradicts anything I said. If the exploit exists and something irrelevant to the exploit is changed there's no reason you need to 'update' the exploit. I know people share hacks, sure, but what I'm saying is that arbitrary updates don't make exploits go away. LeCom's argument seemed to be that if we had an actively developed game that it would make the hackers go away. This simply isn't true though.

I don't think you get that I mean that anti-hack changes will go with bugfixes, and it will be easier to do thanks to having the source.

[LeCom]

What I am referring to is that changes would make existing hacks incompatible, so idiots would have to make new ones after each update.

What I'm trying to tell you is that just changing code doesn't all of a sudden nullify the exploits that already exist in it. If a door is unlocked in a house it doesn't matter if I lock a window, the door is still open.

you do realize forums where people share the source for game hacks exist, right?

I don't understand how that's relevant or contradicts anything I said. If the exploit exists and something irrelevant to the exploit is changed there's no reason you need to 'update' the exploit. I know people share hacks, sure, but what I'm saying is that arbitrary updates don't make exploits go away. LeCom's argument seemed to be that if we had an actively developed game that it would make the hackers go away. This simply isn't true though.

I don't think you get that I mean that anti-hack changes will go with bugfixes, and it will be easier to do thanks to having the source.

Hacks don't evolve from "bugs in the client". Client-side anti-hack protection in general is 0 effective.

[epicfacethe3rd]

what puzzles me is how the Spanish and Brazilians have found a game where the forums are in English, the server names are in English, the server MOTDs are in English, the text is in English, but the two are still the most predominate of them all.
now that's determination. if only our government was that compelled to fight corruption.

Brazilians and Hispanic players (they are rarely actually Spanish nationals) deal with ridiculously high tariffs on video games, which is why they are so prevalent on F2P games. Count in the fact that we attract a lot of kids who can't afford Minecraft and we're set up to have a pretty brutal community (namely children who don't speak the same language as us). I used to really hate them (they don't vote, they rarely work with others, etc) until I realized it really does just come down to the language barrier.

The whole idea that Brazilians/Polaks put out a higher proportion of trolls only exists because you notice when someone is a Brazilian/Polak more often because they speak a different language than you do.

I was actually trying to say I admire the Brazilians and Hispanic for their determination. I have actually seen very few Spanish-speakers who hack.

TL;DR: Most Brazilians are children who can't afford to play other videogames.

very true.

thank you for clearing up what i was trying to say. the OP smg is nerfed at long range in .76, making it akin to the shotgun. what should happen is the rifle have obscene damage at close quaters, and still 1hk at long, provided you get a headshot.

I accept your premise but reject your conclusions. I liked the weapon balance in 0.70, with the possible exception of making blocks stronger to the SMG.

one of the other reasons I like .76 better is because the server can change damage values to keep people from complaining about this, or even make the SMG deal -10 hp, as it does in real life against half-decent armor. the game makes it like a SAW, just with a smaller ammo belt, and no recoil.