$Eddy$ wrote:Can't go wrong? Not really. Any decent rifle user who can dodge can take out an smg user at medium range with ease
Fog line? Definitely. Long range? Iffy. Mid range? Hell no. We may have different ideas on what's considered mid range, however.
SMG's only negative is poor accuracy at the fog line. Rifle can out-range it there, yeah, but it still has its own issues with fog line firing, and if I want to pepper people, I might as well use the SMG for it.
Also, factoring in dodging, I'd still say it's still in favor of the SMG user. 30 vs 10, Rifle's trying to get a good shot on the SMG, SMG is just bobbing and weaving, pointing and shooting.
Can't go wrong? Not really. Any decent rifle user who can dodge can take out an smg user at medium range with ease
You seem to speak like someone who have played the game a long time, but I doubt that seeing as you joined the forums 1st of may this year. So please stop trying to sound like a seasoned pro, since the fact is, you aren't. You might be good at the game and all, but you do not have the experience many of us other have. Like eraaaaz said, you can dodge rifle bullets, good luck dodging smg bullets.
Bastion forever.
"Milk is the only good white thing, that isn't semen" - Juxta
$Eddy$ wrote:Can't go wrong? Not really. Any decent rifle user who can dodge can take out an smg user at medium range with ease
Fog line? Definitely. Long range? Iffy. Mid range? Hell no. We may have different ideas on what's considered mid range, however.
SMG's only negative is poor accuracy at the fog line. Rifle can out-range it there, yeah, but it still has its own issues with fog line firing, and if I want to pepper people, I might as well use the SMG for it.
Also, factoring in dodging, I'd still say it's still in favor of the SMG user. 30 vs 10, Rifle's trying to get a good shot on the SMG, SMG is just bobbing and weaving, pointing and shooting.
Whatever, I can see there's no point arguing with you.
Strawhat this is an alternate account. I was extremely immature in my past and do not like to be reminded of it, so I made a new account. And, if it is at medium range and both the smg user and the rifle user have slightly decent cover then the rifle will win. It's also not that hard to quickly headshot an smg user before he kills you.
$Eddy$ wrote:Can't go wrong? Not really. Any decent rifle user who can dodge can take out an smg user at medium range with ease
Fog line? Definitely. Long range? Iffy. Mid range? Hell no. We may have different ideas on what's considered mid range, however.
SMG's only negative is poor accuracy at the fog line. Rifle can out-range it there, yeah, but it still has its own issues with fog line firing, and if I want to pepper people, I might as well use the SMG for it.
Also, factoring in dodging, I'd still say it's still in favor of the SMG user. 30 vs 10, Rifle's trying to get a good shot on the SMG, SMG is just bobbing and weaving, pointing and shooting.
Whatever, I can see there's no point arguing with you.
Strawhat this is an alternate account. I was extremely immature in my past and do not like to be reminded of it, so I made a new account. And, if it is at medium range and both the smg user and the rifle user have slightly decent cover then the rifle will win. It's also not that hard to quickly headshot an smg user before he kills you.
But what actually happens is the SMGer will knock you down with minimal spread and pinpoint accuracy, even if he misses some shots he has the firing rate advantage, so before you could shoot another round you will have been hit by several rounds already, and you with your rifle that can hardly hit anything (the rifle has some terrible spread) will be thrashed, because you had your center of the sight directly on the enemy's head, and it doesn't hit anywhere close to where you pointed it at.
I could simply pick up a SMG and completely dominate, but would find it a very hard time to achieve the same result with a Rifle.
$Eddy$ wrote:Can't go wrong? Not really. Any decent rifle user who can dodge can take out an smg user at medium range with ease
Fog line? Definitely. Long range? Iffy. Mid range? Hell no. We may have different ideas on what's considered mid range, however.
SMG's only negative is poor accuracy at the fog line. Rifle can out-range it there, yeah, but it still has its own issues with fog line firing, and if I want to pepper people, I might as well use the SMG for it.
Also, factoring in dodging, I'd still say it's still in favor of the SMG user. 30 vs 10, Rifle's trying to get a good shot on the SMG, SMG is just bobbing and weaving, pointing and shooting.
Whatever, I can see there's no point arguing with you.
Strawhat this is an alternate account. I was extremely immature in my past and do not like to be reminded of it, so I made a new account. And, if it is at medium range and both the smg user and the rifle user have slightly decent cover then the rifle will win. It's also not that hard to quickly headshot an smg user before he kills you.
But what actually happens is the SMGer will knock you down with minimal spread and pinpoint accuracy, even if he misses some shots he has the firing rate advantage, so before you could shoot another round you will have been hit by several rounds already, and you with your rifle that can hardly hit anything (the rifle has some terrible spread) will be thrashed, because you had your center of the sight directly on the enemy's head, and it doesn't hit anywhere close to where you pointed it at.
I could simply pick up a SMG and completely dominate, but would find it a very hard time to achieve the same result with a Rifle.
We're talking about normal rifles not rifles that have "spread". And rifle scopes are accurate .and do hit the center of the head if they are made by an even slightly competent modder
But we're talking about 0.75's rifle, which is known to be less-than accurate. There have been many instances of me shooting directly at an enemy's head with a rifle, and not getting an instant kill.
The problem is not the scopes, but like I said the spread. Sometimes your rifle will hit where you point it, but other times it decides to not hit exactly where you pointed it.
1Shot1Kill wrote:But we're talking about 0.75's rifle, which is known to be less-than accurate. There have been many instances of me shooting directly at an enemy's head with a rifle, and not getting an instant kill.
The problem is not the scopes, but like I said the spread. Sometimes your rifle will hit where you point it, but other times it decides to not hit exactly where you pointed it.
You're right about that. I am just kind of an extremist rifle user, although my aim isn't too good right now. I just don't like when smg users camp, and I don't even like using the smg even though I am pretty okay with it. I see what you mean about how 75 rifle doesn't cooperate all the time, but they, for the most part, fixed that in 0.76.
$Eddy$ wrote:I see what you mean about how 75 rifle doesn't cooperate all the time, but they, for the most part, fixed that in 0.76.
This is the problem: Nobody plays 0.76. If we were talking about 0.76, I'd be more inclined to agree, and I should have specified that I was talking about 0.75, that's my bad.
Just looking stat-wise, it's quite a bit better than the rifle. The rifle is a OHK with a headshot, but the SMG does 75 damage which is very close and means one headshot and one bodyshot will kill you. The SMG fires five times faster, so in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 damage it can do 375/145/90. The SMG has 0.012 spread and the rifle has 0.006. If those are vector based, that equates to half the hit chance for the SMG, and if they are angle based it's still around half. Applying the hit chance, that still means the SMG can do, on average, 185.5/72.5/45 damage in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 at long range. That's almost double the damage if you are aiming for the head, and at close range it does almost quadruple the damage.
And then there's the issue where, as an automatic weapon, it tends to be more forgiving than a slower firing weapon and have a lower skill floor, causing it to be considered a "noob weapon".
Phoenix33 wrote:Just looking stat-wise, it's quite a bit better than the rifle. The rifle is a OHK with a headshot, but the SMG does 75 damage which is very close and means one headshot and one bodyshot will kill you. The SMG fires five times faster, so in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 damage it can do 375/145/90. The SMG has 0.012 spread and the rifle has 0.006. If those are vector based, that equates to half the hit chance for the SMG, and if they are angle based it's still around half. Applying the hit chance, that still means the SMG can do, on average, 185.5/72.5/45 damage in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 at long range. That's almost double the damage if you are aiming for the head, and at close range it does almost quadruple the damage.
And then there's the issue where, as an automatic weapon, it tends to be more forgiving than a slower firing weapon and have a lower skill floor, causing it to be considered a "noob weapon".
Not including recoil in the calculations? Few players can handle the recoil and stay accurate, unless they use quick bursts. Some people jump and lower their scope a notch downward, as they are firing and stay on target (Hi Darksand) but that is a very few percent of players. The majority of smg users cannot master their recoil and will be beaten by a decent rifler at mid range. And if a rifle user has quick reflexes they can quickly headshot an smg user a close range, because people using smgs tend to not dodge and stick with spraying. Whilst smg users tend to use up their bullets more quickly continually shooting while they futilely try and fix their scope to match the recoil.
Phoenix33 wrote:Just looking stat-wise, it's quite a bit better than the rifle. The rifle is a OHK with a headshot, but the SMG does 75 damage which is very close and means one headshot and one bodyshot will kill you. The SMG fires five times faster, so in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 damage it can do 375/145/90. The SMG has 0.012 spread and the rifle has 0.006. If those are vector based, that equates to half the hit chance for the SMG, and if they are angle based it's still around half. Applying the hit chance, that still means the SMG can do, on average, 185.5/72.5/45 damage in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 at long range. That's almost double the damage if you are aiming for the head, and at close range it does almost quadruple the damage.
And then there's the issue where, as an automatic weapon, it tends to be more forgiving than a slower firing weapon and have a lower skill floor, causing it to be considered a "noob weapon".
Not including recoil in the calculations? Few players can handle the recoil and stay accurate, unless they use quick bursts. Some people jump and lower their scope a notch downward, as they are firing and stay on target (Hi Darksand) but that is a very few percent of players. The majority of smg users cannot master their recoil and will be beaten by a decent rifler at mid range. And if a rifle user has quick reflexes they can quickly headshot an smg user a close range, because people using smgs tend to not dodge and stick with spraying. Whilst smg users tend to use up their bullets more quickly continually shooting while they futilely try and fix their scope to match the recoil.
You are assuming the player using the SMG is bad (can't aim, can't dodge, can't handle predictable recoil), which is the problem. The SMG is a skill crutch that has been balanced so that bad players using it can be as good as good players using the rifle, so when someone good uses it it becomes overpowered. The recoil is not nearly as bad as you think it is (it's about one fourth of the recoil of the rifle, so missing a shot with the rifle and having to adjust for recoil is almost as bad as missing one with the SMG) and even if it was the damage it can deal at any range compared to the rifle is ridiculous.
Bbig Boss wrote:I play very much on ace of spades, and there is something that really grind my gears: the people who start to insult to ALL Who uses the SMG.
What is wrong with them?
Why they dont use the SMG if they think that it is OP?
Are they idiots?
people get owned and then they find a reason to cry.
Bbig Boss wrote:I play very much on ace of spades, and there is something that really grind my gears: the people who start to insult to ALL Who uses the SMG.
What is wrong with them?
Why they dont use the SMG if they think that it is OP?
Are they idiots?
If smg users are like me they are a bunch of idiots
Phoenix33 wrote:Just looking stat-wise, it's quite a bit better than the rifle. The rifle is a OHK with a headshot, but the SMG does 75 damage which is very close and means one headshot and one bodyshot will kill you. The SMG fires five times faster, so in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 damage it can do 375/145/90. The SMG has 0.012 spread and the rifle has 0.006. If those are vector based, that equates to half the hit chance for the SMG, and if they are angle based it's still around half. Applying the hit chance, that still means the SMG can do, on average, 185.5/72.5/45 damage in the time the rifle can do 100/49/33 at long range. That's almost double the damage if you are aiming for the head, and at close range it does almost quadruple the damage.
And then there's the issue where, as an automatic weapon, it tends to be more forgiving than a slower firing weapon and have a lower skill floor, causing it to be considered a "noob weapon".
Not including recoil in the calculations? Few players can handle the recoil and stay accurate, unless they use quick bursts. Some people jump and lower their scope a notch downward, as they are firing and stay on target (Hi Darksand) but that is a very few percent of players. The majority of smg users cannot master their recoil and will be beaten by a decent rifler at mid range. And if a rifle user has quick reflexes they can quickly headshot an smg user a close range, because people using smgs tend to not dodge and stick with spraying. Whilst smg users tend to use up their bullets more quickly continually shooting while they futilely try and fix their scope to match the recoil.
You are assuming the player using the SMG is bad (can't aim, can't dodge, can't handle predictable recoil), which is the problem. The SMG is a skill crutch that has been balanced so that bad players using it can be as good as good players using the rifle, so when someone good uses it it becomes overpowered. The recoil is not nearly as bad as you think it is (it's about one fourth of the recoil of the rifle, so missing a shot with the rifle and having to adjust for recoil is almost as bad as missing one with the SMG) and even if it was the damage it can deal at any range compared to the rifle is ridiculous.
The thing is, smg users are most commonly people who, as you put it "can't aim, can't dodge, can't handle predictable recoil". The rifle can just kill an smg user in one shot. If the smg user happens to be good, it will take at least two shots. Rifle users can just stand behind a two block high barricade, and assuming they are good with rifle like the smg user they are going up against is good with an smg, they can momentarily quick scope, and duck. The smg user has to stand, take a couple moments to adjust their shot to handle the recoil based on where the enemy is standing, then duck. You can see which player will most likely win. Anyway, I have seen nearly first time Aos players use the same arguments as you have, and based on when you joined anyone can see the hypocrisy.
Seriously, what's up with people joining and continuing arguments? The same thing happened in the CTRL thread.
