The Problem with Votekick

[Skwid]

In my experience, the number of players needed to do a successful votekick is too high. When there's a hacker, it's usually apparent to everyone because they can see it on the kill feed. However, if you try to votekick a griefer, you're basically up a creek because people are too distrusting/apathetic/Brazilian to actually vote. I can't decide if this is a problem with the community or the votekick script itself as it is on most servers. So, this is where you come in: wat do, BnS community?

[rakiru]

I've seen instances where blatant hackers don't get voted off, and others where I've seen people voted off because someone started a votekick and everyone jumped on the bandwagon, even though that player did nothing wrong. While lowering the required percentage would make it easier to kick hackers, it would also make it easier to kick everyone else.

[Jdrew]

The script Is fine its just the server owner's have it set to where you have to have half the server on your side

[TheGeekZeke101]

Just today I was on a server when this one kid was on a kicking spree. From what I was seeing, none of the players were doing anything wrong and the player was abusing his rights. I myself was being kicked today for false reasoning, and the votes were rolling in. If there was such a smaller vote amount needed, I believe I and many others would get kicked at an alarming rate, especially things we didn't do wrong.

With this, there are many votekicks that are made against hackers, greifers, and those going against the rules. Most of which don't go through because of the lack of votes. Not as many votes tend to come in when someone who truly deserves the punishment is being kicked. I mean, if they're ruining the game for others, why should it take so many people to vote?

As much as I'd like for server owners to decrease the amount of votes it takes for a player to get kicked, I don't think it would make an incredible difference. It could also backfire at the community. Although, I do think there should be a better way to notify the players a votekick is in progress. Maybe a message could appear above the screen, instead of the global chat. Chances are players don't ever see the votekicks, and may not be totally aware. Atleast they can be informed, no? I also do believe there should be a certain amount of votekicks a player can make in a given time period. Maybe, when you vote, you have to confirm it again by having a message appear on your screen, asking for you to vote one more time once you've seen it. I think this would be a better step.

[Cajun Style]

Sometimes I'm even aware there is a votekick, but I can't read the details, because they are flushed out by kills. Definitely something that could use improvement.
I personally had the threshold set to 17%. It would in theory have a lot of "false positives". I think in practice the false negatives outnumber the false positives by 10:1 or something. Ideally you'd have 1:1, but with less occurrences.
/votekick should return the current vote when applicable. Maybe a system where you can vote "no" would help some false positives. So an implied "no" would weigh less than an explicit "no".

[Reki]

I personally think a false positive is more damaging than a missed votekick.
Votekick thresholds have been a point of discussion among many servers, but the problem is that "AIRSTRIKE UNLOCKED. TYPE /Y TO LAUNCH." is more successful than "griefing everything" when it comes to reasons. That's the community being misinformed, and that's what we ought to fix.

[TheGeekZeke101]

I personally think a false positive is more damaging than a missed votekick.
Votekick thresholds have been a point of discussion among many servers, but the problem is that "AIRSTRIKE UNLOCKED. TYPE /Y TO LAUNCH." is more successful than "griefing everything" when it comes to reasons. That's the community being misinformed, and that's what we ought to fix.

Pretty much what Reki said. We can't really blame those players either. Who didn't type "/y" their first time seeing that?

[rakiru]

I personally think a false positive is more damaging than a missed votekick.
Votekick thresholds have been a point of discussion among many servers, but the problem is that "AIRSTRIKE UNLOCKED. TYPE /Y TO LAUNCH." is more successful than "griefing everything" when it comes to reasons. That's the community being misinformed, and that's what we ought to fix.

Pretty much what Reki said. We can't really blame those players either. Who didn't type "/y" their first time seeing that?

Probably the same people that weren't retarded enough to press alt-f4 when they first saw "PRESS ALT-F4 TO AIRSTRIKE". You know, us non-retards.

But yeah, to expand upon the points above that say the community is at fault, a lot of people who start votekicks don't even both putting in a reason. These tend to be the same people who then spam chat with "TYPE /Y FOR AIRSTRIKE". Sadly, this also blocks anyone else from starting a votekick WITH a reason.

One problem with the votekick script though is that two people can take it in turns to start random votekicks, stopping anyone from votekicking them while they aimbot/grief to their hearts' content.

[topo]

I'd like to see what would happen if the script were tweaked to only pass a votekick when:

• 65% of either team votes yes
• 35% of each team votes yes
• 30% of all players vote yes

[Cajun Style]

I'm not sure you have those numbers right, topo. 35% of each team would mean 30% anyway.

One problem with the votekick script though is that two people can take it in turns to start random votekicks, stopping anyone from votekicking them while they aimbot/grief to their hearts' content.

It could be a serious problem. I have never seen such a case, though. Usually a cheater tries to focus attention on another cheater, and hopes to gain reputational immunity. There is a very difficult problem of which I don't know a formal name, but it's "relative gain risks". What I mean is, that as soon as the community gets educated about votekicks and generally uses them adequately it could suddenly become much more advantageous (almost necessary for cheaters) to block votekicks by working together. You could view this as a simple measure and counter-measure race, but one point I want to make is that you might be surprised as to what the most effective or most used cheating M.O.'s will be. Same goes for my proposed system, or any solution: needs testing.
I'm really in doubt about "fixing the community". What I think is educational is when a group of people tries to votekick somebody over chat. (The first votekicks fail, because not enough people vote.) Server messages about votekick would be nice too. (Instead of semi-humorous stuff.) Although I doubt you could effectively inform the masses. The target audience is 13-year old Poles. It kind of has its charms that noobs around the world can pick-up and play it. >_>
I'm not good enough to get votekicked falsely constantly. But perhaps to some people it is a really big problem.

[rakiru]

I've seen the back-and-forth votekick thing used on at least 3 occasions (although admittedly 2 of those times were by the same people (who I totally do not know)), and it could easily become more popular should many skids see others doing it.

I've been vote-kicked for hacking (I assume the "no reason given" times were also hacking, and that I'm not just hated by half of the community) countless times.

[shywolf91]

I personally think a false positive is more damaging than a missed votekick.
Votekick thresholds have been a point of discussion among many servers, but the problem is that "AIRSTRIKE UNLOCKED. TYPE /Y TO LAUNCH." is more successful than "griefing everything" when it comes to reasons. That's the community being misinformed, and that's what we ought to fix.

I've seen that so much while playing. Most of the time the reasons for the votekick were not that special. People are using the votekick for reasons like they didn't like the player's name or that the player was better than them.
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Also one thought I've had, if it was possible, was to add the votekick information (target, reason ,etc) in a separate area than the global and team chat area. So that the reason is always on the screen.

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Another thought was maybe servers should modify the number of times a player can votekick in a round.

[Reki]

Whenever I start a votekick, for the reason I put something slightly trumped up/scary, such as "Killing all of his teammates" or "Destroying everything green has". Then I explain in detail repeatedly via the chat exactly what he's doing, and the votes start trickling in.

[TheGeekZeke101]

Maybe the community will have to make their own reasonings? For example, if you were to type "/votekick TheGeekZeke101 1", the reasoning would be "Hacker: Using aimbot". There would be various reasonings for griefers, etc. If they didn't put down a number, the votekick wouldn't be valid. At-least it'd help with valid reasonings and sorting out right from wrong.

[TheSifodias]

Maybe the community will have to make their own reasonings? For example, if you were to type "/votekick TheGeekZeke101 1", the reasoning would be "Hacker: Using aimbot". There would be various reasonings for griefers, etc. If they didn't put down a number, the votekick wouldn't be valid. At-least it'd help with valid reasonings and sorting out right from wrong.

But how exactly would that help on the number on votes. Wouldn't it make people who don't go to the forums(a whole lot of decent players) very confused?

I'm not sure you have those numbers right, topo. 35% of each team would mean 30% anyway.

One problem with the votekick script though is that two people can take it in turns to start random votekicks, stopping anyone from votekicking them while they aimbot/grief to their hearts' content.

It could be a serious problem. I have never seen such a case, though. Usually a cheater tries to focus attention on another cheater, and hopes to gain reputational immunity. There is a very difficult problem of which I don't know a formal name, but it's "relative gain risks". What I mean is, that as soon as the community gets educated about votekicks and generally uses them adequately it could suddenly become much more advantageous (almost necessary for cheaters) to block votekicks by working together. You could view this as a simple measure and counter-measure race, but one point I want to make is that you might be surprised as to what the most effective or most used cheating M.O.'s will be. Same goes for my proposed system, or any solution: needs testing.
I'm really in doubt about "fixing the community". What I think is educational is when a group of people tries to votekick somebody over chat. (The first votekicks fail, because not enough people vote.) Server messages about votekick would be nice too. (Instead of semi-humorous stuff.) Although I doubt you could effectively inform the masses. The target audience is 13-year old Poles. It kind of has its charms that noobs around the world can pick-up and play it. >_>
I'm not good enough to get votekicked falsely constantly. But perhaps to some people it is a really big problem.

Why not just allow multiple votekicks? The rule would be that the same person cannot votekick twice, and the server could allow a maximum of 3 votekicks at a time.

My ideas:
A) When we specify a certain kick with a reason, that reason could a wave of commands. For example,
Reason: Hacker(Hax,Hackers,Hacker.,Aimbot,Aimpot,etc...) would trigger a quick /hackinfo command on the person, for everyone to see. Similarly, Reason: Greifer., etc..., would display how many blocks the person destroyed and other destruction details. Not sure about the Reason: Troller votekicks though.

B) We make votekicks a separated piece of text next to the kill section on the HUD. Since many people look more at their kills than the global chat, it would be more obvious with more players. Also, the votekick text should be a bright red instead of blue(I tend to get it mixed up with the blue team chat).