Build and Shoot

Hey everyone. I'm reposting my reddit post here. You can find the original here, although I will be taking feedback here as well.

"Hey everyone, my name is Arcinius, although most will know me as dc3773 when I played in the larger tournaments, or as F22Raptor from waaaay back in 2011 when everyone had rifles and pings were somehow even worse than today.
Those of you from r1ctf 24/7 hallway, almost certainly know me in some form, whether is be from the deceased [META] clan or just the person taking the game waaay too serious on a casual server.
But I digress...
The game is dying, and only a niche community keeps it alive. This is no mystery, and no secret. From an outside perspective the game has become understandably empty. Most people probably heard Ace Of Spades and think of the newer Jagex game, which in my opinion pales in comparison to the simplicity and raw gameplay achieved from what looked like the next big thing, back in early 2012. Build And Shoot and Openspades certainly boosted the populations once more, but even that golden age had to come to an end. Now those who remain are playing on the few professional servers left hosting games, without any events or new features to keep them going, only their pure undying love for a dying game.
So what's the solution here? I genuinely don't know. I'd love more tournaments, as this game has some great eSports options, but without an active community, this wouldn't help near enough.
What about a private build of the game made by the community? Well, I've heard this many, many times, but little has come from it. Remember the hype for 0.76? Well, most of it was either pessimistic hype or straight up anger, but at least the community was together on something... that something being boycotting a version that was never properly released in a fully finished state...
Regardless, I'd love to hear what the community thinks. Should we let this game die and move on to the next game, like Sub Rosa, a much more active community supporting a much more actively developed indie project, or should we fight for the game we want, and have always wanted. I'm behind the community either way, but perhaps a vote would be the best way. This vote, of course, in tandem with your feedback below."

[cannot post links, this isn't my original account]

"Sorry for the long post, but hey, I'm genuinely in love with this game, and have been for years. I have well over 3000 hours in all non-Jagex versions, and will continue to play... even if I'm alone ;(
-Thanks, Arcinius"

That's all, thank you for taking the time to read through. Please go to the reddit and find my post to participate in the strawpoll, which will decide how a dedicated community group will continue to support the game..

You are not alone in your concern!
Dozens of people have had dozens of ideas. One of the most currently feasible is here: http://aloha.pk/index.php?topic=8231.0
also who are you no one knows you

Atreyu wrote:

You are not alone in your concern!
Dozens of people have had dozens of ideas. One of the most currently feasible is here: http://aloha.pk/index.php?topic=8231.0
also who are you no one knows you

Everything helps. My focus will most likely be a bit different, however. Depending on how the community votes, I will either be heading development of a community branch (with dev permission), working on hosting community events, or helping the community in other ways. I can't really do more than one or two things at once however, so the reddit vote will decide my priorities.

Here's the reddit link BTW: https://www.reddit.com/r/AceOfSpades/co ... oved_game/

No. Please just no. Even if you ignore the reasons why AoS is dead and let your emotional bond with this game overwhelm you, obviously there must have been a reason why it died. I mean, from >1000 to 100 players isn't just like "bad luck" or "only because there are no new maps/mods" or something. Well, now you probably couldn't give less of a fuck about the reasons themselves I guess, but I'll still say that the game is simply boring af, not fun anymore, monotonous, crappily balanced, and has shitty maps and gameplay.
Anyways, if you really want to make a change, you should support new projects. See the answers to a question that is more or less similar to your ideas here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BuildandShoot/ ... ust_a_pain
You should not advertise standard AoS 0.75/0.76, but one of these instead, if you actually want to get the game going again.

LeCom wrote:

No. Please just no. Even if you ignore the reasons why AoS is dead and let your emotional bond with this game overwhelm you, obviously there must have been a reason why it died. I mean, from >1000 to 100 players isn't just like "bad luck" or "only because there are no new maps/mods" or something. Well, now you probably couldn't give less of a fuck about the reasons themselves I guess, but I'll still say that the game is simply boring af, not fun anymore, monotonous, crappily balanced, and has shitty maps and gameplay.
Anyways, if you really want to make a change, you should support new projects. See the answers to a question that is more or less similar to your ideas here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BuildandShoot/ ... ust_a_pain
You should not advertise standard AoS 0.75/0.76, but one of these instead, if you actually want to get the game going again.

Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation. You didn't answer my post with relevancy and you made assumptions about me and my intents that have no place in this thread. Kindly depart from this discussion on the future of THIS game and move on to a post about other games, which, frankly, I have no interest in.

And of course this is a passion project. I wouldn't waste my time supporting the community of a game I didn't love. Your opinion of the game isn't going to change that.

Toodles.

"Well, now you probably couldn't give less of a fuck about the reasons themselves I guess" Jesus Christ...

Lmao.
"... Should we let this game die ..." => We already did it. :O
He grabs his shoulders and softly whispers in his ear:you know this game deserved it.

LeFizzy wrote:

Lmao.
"... Should we let this game die ..." => We already did it. :O
He grabs his shoulders and softly whispers in his ear:you know this game deserved it.

xD. It may be dying, but gosh darn I'll do my best to facilitate the community before the grave comes.

This game has no god damned future. It hasn't had one for over 4 years. Jagex ruined it, we ruined it.
Could you stop with these "WE CAN BRING IT BACK EVEN THOUGH MORE QUALIFIED PEOPLE THAT HAVE APPLIED MORE EFFORT THAN US IN THE PAST COULDN'T" posts?
This is what is killing the community. Wanting to keep this dog on the verge of death alive while neglecting its puppies, these puppies being all the games that spawned from it (not going to count openspades, it's just a client).
Support VXW, support Iceball, or even bail completely and rebrand our community.

Zekamalikyd wrote:

This game has no god damned future. It hasn't had one for over 4 years. Jagex ruined it, we ruined it.
Could you stop with these "WE CAN BRING IT BACK EVEN THOUGH MORE QUALIFIED PEOPLE THAT HAVE APPLIED MORE EFFORT THAN US IN THE PAST COULDN'T" posts?
This is what is killing the community. Wanting to keep this dog on the verge of death alive while neglecting its puppies, these puppies being all the games that spawned from it (not going to count openspades, it's just a client).
Support VXW, support Iceball, or even bail completely and rebrand our community.

Again, irrelevent to my post. I'm talking about this game not others, and I am working on AoS regardless of its future. I have no illusions of grandeur. I myself can host tournaments, manage development teams and help development myself. That what I CAN do regardless of your assumption. Unlike past teams, the start and end of my developement idea is getting either the official source code, or enough resources to build a source branch with what we do have. And that's only if the people that actually still see a future in this game, so not you and your little pessimistic (I suppose you'd call yourself 'realistic' despite the fact a four+ year old niche indie game with over one hundred concurrent players is actually better than most games in similar situations, and actually still fairly relevant). You see, I have zero interest in creating a new 'AoS-like' game. I literally want to get a team together and work on this game, whether that be development if we get the source code or source branch, or community events, or helping BnS as they need, or helping servers stay up, or help netcode, or anything else under the sun. That said, I know my limitations, and I'm also actively running a CS:GO tournament, so my resources will have to be directed in key areas... hence the vote. So congratulations on missing the point, being unrealistically pessimistic, and adding literally nothing to this conversation by simply reiterating a previous reply... which was also irrelevant.

P.S. Before you say: "Literally dozens of people have tried to get the source code, and Jagex ignored them"

A) No, most people talked about it, or contacted a Jagex member, not the company as a whole under a business initiative.

B) Jagex may even have legal limitations on the source code, as it wasn't originally theirs . Understanding this, future development is the least likely of the options in the vote, however, if the source code was, theoretically, obtained, it would be the best possible option.

Ultimately I doubt it'll ever happen, but leaving it as an option makes sense. Community events appear to be the most widely requested initiative however.

"And that's only if the people that actually still see a future in this game, so not you and your little pessimistic"
What you want? We sit here since 2014 to see a big step by buildthenshit and what they did IN 2016? Bought a domain,that's just redirect you to this domain. Clap-clap,I really want to see what you do.

LeFizzy wrote:

"And that's only if the people that actually still see a future in this game, so not you and your little pessimistic"
What you want? We sit here since 2014 to see a big step by buildthenshit and what they did IN 2016? Bought a domain,that's just redirect you to this domain. Clap-clap,I really want to see what you do.

This post was is such broken english I have no clue what you're saying. Like, I'm not angry or anything, I'm actually not sure if you're trying to say this is stupid orrr...?

Arcinius wrote:

Again, irrelevent to my post. I'm talking about this game not others, and I am working on AoS regardless of its future.

How is this irrelevant? You're saying "WE (I) CAN FIX", I'm saying "no".

Arcinius wrote:

I have no illusions of grandeur. I myself can host tournaments, manage development teams and help development myself. That what I CAN do regardless of your assumption.

Please do so, and tell me the results afterwards.

Arcinius wrote:

Unlike past teams, the start and end of my developement idea is getting either the official source code, or enough resources to build a source branch with what we do have.

Much like past teams, you will run into the legal barrier which has turn said past teams into making the 'AoS-like' games you're going to talk about.

Arcinius wrote:

And that's only if the people that actually still see a future in this game, so not you and your little pessimistic (I suppose you'd call yourself 'realistic' despite the fact a four+ year old niche indie game with over one hundred concurrent players is actually better than most games in similar situations, and actually still fairly relevant).
You're forgetting the times where this four+ year old game had over thousands of people. Those people left. Great people to this community, who kept it alive.

I would not call myself realistic, that implies some degree of escaping reality. "Over one hundred concurrent players" aren't enough to keep the community alive. And I'm guessing at least part of those "over one hundred concurrent players" are still here because they have shitty computers that can't run anything else. It's a simple game, shitty graphics, not really any interesting mechanics.

Arcinius wrote:

You see, I have zero interest in creating a new 'AoS-like' game. I literally want to get a team together and work on this game, whether that be development if we get the source code or source branch, or community events, or helping BnS as they need, or helping servers stay up, or help netcode, or anything else under the sun. That said, I know my limitations, and I'm also actively running a CS:GO tournament, so my resources will have to be directed in key areas... hence the vote.

You have zero interest in the best option. Again, good luck getting past the legal barrier involving the AoS code.
Is it so hard for all of you defending the "bring back 'good old' AoS" stance to accept you weren't here for the golden age of AoS, and it's not coming back? And if you were here, and are now returning, rememeber why you left for all those years? Was it really those personal issues or whatever, are you sure it wasn't because the game is just utter shit with a shittier community?

Arcinius wrote:

So congratulations on missing the point, being unrealistically pessimistic, and adding literally nothing to this conversation by simply reiterating a previous reply... which was also irrelevant.

Congratulations of missing the points of both replies, and dismissing them because they go against your beliefs.

Arcinius wrote:

P.S. Before you say: "Literally dozens of people have tried to get the source code, and Jagex ignored them"

A) No, most people talked about it, or contacted a Jagex member, not the company as a whole under a business initiative.

Most talked, some did, those got a negative answer. And considering Jagex's views of BnS in the past, nothing's going to change.

Arcinius wrote:

B) Jagex may even have legal limitations on the source code, as it wasn't originally theirs . Understanding this, future development is the least likely of the options in the vote, however, if the source code was, theoretically, obtained, it would be the best possible option.

They bought it, it's theirs. If I'm not mistaken, they took Ben with the game as well.

Arcinius wrote:

Ultimately I doubt it'll ever happen, but leaving it as an option makes sense. Community events appear to be the most widely requested initiative however.

No, it doesn't. Considering, again, several tried, all failed. You're adding nothing to the community, nothing to the game. Community events, like the leagues, did well. The first 3 or so. The rest, was just a small number of teams that actually played.
It died out.
Like the rest of the community.
The few people, namely Dan, who managed to pull the community from its knees and keep .75 and .76 alive after Jagex left.
The ones now running the joint, just don't care.

How is this irrelevant? You're saying "WE (I) CAN FIX", I'm saying "no".

I wasn't asking for your go ahead, I was saying "I'm going ahead, I'd like the community to lead me in a direction [under one of the options in the vote, not your personal opinion] so I can actually do something, as I'm limited on time.

Please do so, and tell me the results afterwards.

Okay? That's kinda the point. I'm not saying it WILL work I'm saying I'm willing to try.

Much like past teams, you will run into the legal barrier which has turn said past teams into making the 'AoS-like' games you're going to talk about.

Uh huh. That's why I gave other options... the options you seem to be entirely ignoring.

You're forgetting the times where this four+ year old game had over thousands of people. Those people left. Great people to this community, who kept it alive. I would not call myself realistic, that implies some degree of escaping reality. "Over one hundred concurrent players" aren't enough to keep the community alive. And I'm guessing at least part of those "over one hundred concurrent players" are still here because they have shitty computers that can't run anything else. It's a simple game, shitty graphics, not really any interesting mechanics.

Yes, that's fine. Regardless of why they're here, they're here. I'm willing to put a great deal of effort into helping them continue.

You have zero interest in the best option. Again, good luck getting past the legal barrier involving the AoS code.
Is it so hard for all of you defending the "bring back 'good old' AoS" stance to accept you weren't here for the golden age of AoS, and it's not coming back? And if you were here, and are now returning, rememeber why you left for all those years? Was it really those personal issues or whatever, are you sure it wasn't because the game is just utter shit with a shittier community?

The 'best option' is not something I can, nor want to, do. I have no time to develope a new title from scratch, nor the experience.

Is it so hard for all of you defending the "bring back 'good old' AoS" stance to accept you weren't here for the golden age of AoS, and it's not coming back? And if you were here, and are now returning, rememeber why you left for all those years? Was it really those personal issues or whatever, are you sure it wasn't because the game is just utter shit with a shittier community?

This specifically is where you probably thought you had some kind of point... except that I have never stopped playing this game for more than a few months, which I do with every game to rotate the ones I like, as once again, I'm busy. I never said I want a new golden age. I never said I wanted to increase the player base. I said I wanted to help. You went down this rabbit hole yourself, have fun down there.

For clarification, this is my alternate account. My other account is both under another name and is tied to a dead email account. I don't have the password to the account, so it is effectively useless, and I like this name better anyways.

Congratulations of missing the points of both replies, and dismissing them because they go against your beliefs.

My belief is helping the community. Your belief is that the game and the community are shit. Damn straight I dismiss that point. Also that was a thing called a summary. A summary and a conclusion.

Most talked, some did, those got a negative answer. And considering Jagex's views of BnS in the past, nothing's going to change.

And due to lack of documentation [that I, personally have seen], I'm willing to see for myself, if the community wishes.

They bought it, it's theirs. If I'm not mistaken, they took Ben with the game as well.

They bought the name for sure, however I don't know exactly what the deal held, and neither do you, so let's not speculate any further on that point. All I'll say is, you're probably right, and a fair point.

No, it doesn't. Considering, again, several tried, all failed. You're adding nothing to the community, nothing to the game. Community events, like the leagues, did well. The first 3 or so. The rest, was just a small number of teams that actually played.
It died out.
Like the rest of the community.
The few people, namely Dan, who managed to pull the community from its knees and keep .75 and .76 alive after Jagex left.
The ones now running the joint, just don't care.

Welp, I was about to retract my 'pessimistic' statement, but that fits the definition soooo.

Anyways, I don't know what your goal is. I'm going ahead with this no matter what, hence why telling me not to is irrelevent. i literally just want to know where to direct my efforts. If I fail, cool, you were right and I was wrong. If not, even better. So you shouldn't be opposed, no matter what, you win.

Given enough time, I will always "win". The game will, eventually, truly die out.
I honestly don't want to "win". I loved this community, but it won't come back in any way other than this dying form. The game, even if more fleshed out, probably won't be enough to bring it back, and to go beyond what was there back then.
The efforts need to be moved to a reincarnation of AoS that isn't related to it or BnS other than being a spiritual successor.