The thing about building

[CommieBuffalo]

Classic gen didnt really require building/digging outside of intel defense because of how large and open it was. After all why build a defense when you could easily go around it?

Well that's on CTF, I've played once in TOW and both teams were consistently building relatively big(for the current building standarts) bases on top of hills. Blue particularly had a good trench system on the hill overlooking the river. Buuut I only played there once so I don't know if it was an extraordinary occasion or if that happens consistently in that gamemode.

[Dzhoel]

Classic gen didnt really require building/digging outside of intel defense because of how large and open it was. After all why build a defense when you could easily go around it?

When classicgen was popular autoclimb wasn't implemented. Classicgen then required strategy to be put in play to win.

[rakiru]

Classic gen didnt really require building/digging outside of intel defense because of how large and open it was. After all why build a defense when you could easily go around it?

When classicgen was popular autoclimb wasn't implemented. Classicgen then required strategy to be put in play to win.

Building on this, I've seen some pretty fucking impressive bases on classicgen (this was back in 0.52 or so).

[Fluttershy]

When classicgen was popular autoclimb wasn't implemented. Classicgen then required strategy to be put in play to win.

It never really did, outside of the aforementioned intel defense, any other "defense" was just people attacking random shit because they wanted the game to be tactical. A self fulfilling prophecy if you will, except there never was any tactics involved in capturing the other teams penis base because they simply did it for the hell of it.

Well that's on CTF, I've played once in TOW and both teams were consistently building relatively big(for the current building standarts) bases on top of hills. Blue particularly had a good trench system on the hill overlooking the river. Buuut I only played there once so I don't know if it was an extraordinary occasion or if that happens consistently in that gamemode.

Thats moreso the gamemode than the map. People are more likely to build because theyre next to a cp, and people are likely to attack the point because its part of the gamemode, making people feel more fufilled and likely to build more/repair.

[Cajun Style]

TOW == TC?
(Or if you speak Java: TOW ======== TC?)
There is some building, but mostly digging in. I've never seen TC on a goon map. That might be interesting. "Build spam mode" or "Protect the targets" might be interesting new modes for encourage building. Babel is great too, especially because there's clearly a single goal. Cooperation is automatic. But there's always a few morons who try to get fast gain and then block the way.

just people attacking random shit because they wanted the game to be tactical. A self fulfilling prophecy if you will, except there never was any tactics involved in capturing the other teams penis base because they simply did it for the hell of it.

This is very much something to keep in mind. Not that' it's necessarily a bad thing, but it does indicate that not all building related gameplay is "smart".
It's funny that the map I've started working on recently might address some general issues mentioned here. Anyway I'll try to make it do that now :)

[Vucgy]

Also Building would be better if players that move would get accuracy decease , Now I'm not really building I just Run and make headshots to entrenched enemies cause I'm the same accurate when Standing and Running

[rakiru]

(Or if you speak Java: TOW ======== TC?)

wat

[Rusty Spade]

I kind of have this ideal picture where people build such complex structures that they become awesome 3D mazes.

In 0.21 there were such manmade mazes. I loved them. And funny that there were times, where on a full server, I was the only one, who tried to capture the intel, and everybody else in both teams were only building their huge forts. Everybody was new in the game, and almost all of them were minecrafters. They sucked at shooting, so they tried to help the team by building. Now, this is the opposite.

They should buff the building aspect (exactly what jagex did the opposite of, buffing destruction) and make user placed blocks almost twice as strong. that'll help it

I totally agree with you. If we want a building game, we need to buff the building aspect. But don't forget the other awesome feature in this game, that you can destroy everything. Not like in any FPS today. Meanwhile destroying is too easy now. The only thing that gives you a feeling of big success, when you griefing down half of the map with 15 minutes shoveling. That's ridiculously disproportionate, and totally useless in most of the situations, because it doesn't give any advantage for either team. I think if destruction would be harder, we could feel almost the same success for destroying a 5*5*5 bunker.
By the way, in my opinion differentiating the player blocks wouldn't help.

- Remove auto-climb - Being able to quickly run over all sorts of terrain removes the need to build paths and tunnels, and cover for said paths.

I think auto-climb does almost nothing with building... forts, trenches, and other defenses. Auto-climb is only an effective solution for fast attacking. Before auto-climb the only way to make the assault faster was to destroy the hills, and make flat roads on them, and more often through them. The flat surface attackers were easier to shoot down, while the tunnelers were the living terrors. They were able to dig under any fort, find the way to the intel with the radar, than dig under it, stole it, and escape on the fastest and safest route, in their underground flat tunnel. Yes, it led to interesting new tactics, like the spider-towers, but after all, it made the surface war pointless. Yes, I have used the tunneling tactics a lot, but that's the reason why I know, it's too imbalanced on any non-flat world. And I think the only reason for its extinction, that it's extremely boring to watch three blocks in front of you disappearing sequentially in the whole game without any difficulty.

Why people aren't building :
1. To make a bunker with 4walls with 5x3 +roof you will need walls60+roof25 = 85blocks and its really irritating to go back to base for new blocks
2. A simple wall protects the same(99.9%) as a Bunker with roof and all that. Thats why Ben tough of adding mortars so that people start making reall bunkers.
3. After 10 minutes or less there are enough holes and random blocks to protect yourself ( to be reall you need just 2 blocks to find that are one on other...
4. As the building is higher and prettier it irritates the griefers more.
5. Tunneling is very usefull in real CTF fights but most people likes to run and shoot ...
6.Tunnels/Roads The auto-climb killed Tunneling and Roading . Before the hill was a hard to pass terrain , now you can climb it up without losing like 5% of your time ...

1. You can dig new ones around the bunker, but yeah, nobody will build a bunker alone. It's teamwork after all.
2. Mortars a huge idea! I wan't them! Now! But it's an interesting question. If a wall is enough defense for someone, why are they building bunkers in real life? Only because the mortars? Don't think so.
3. Yes, as I said before. Destroying is way too easy. And the funny thing in it, that now it helps defending better, than building.
4. So, we need a solution, where players can destroy higher buildings a lot harder.
I had an idea long time ago, and I'm really excited your opinions about it. (5-6. are about tunneling, what I mentioned before.)

[Rusty Spade]

I would put a very little pseudo-physics in AoS:
The more block on the top of a block, the harder to move it.

In other words the more shovel hit to destroy it. Practically to destroy a 10 blocks high tower, you would need 10 hits in the bottom block, while only 1 in the top block. So, to destroy anything with a shovel, you would have to click the same amount, no matters where do you start it, top, bottom, or middle. R.I.P. griefing!
But this is only the beginning. I know that the "weight-based" building is huge advantage for the builders, but I have more.
I would get rid of the rifle-machine gun-shotgun-digging. They are pointless, and they are available from the beginning, so everybody who connects to a server can instantly destroy buildings from afar. The only beginner stuff for destroying would be the spade. Or. The only item in the beginning could be the spade alone, maybe with a low power pistol.

Ok, so I've removed literally everything from AoS. You can only build now, scratching the surface with your shovel, and kill one or two enemies with you pistol, if you are lucky.
What I give you after all? Everything! If you build and shoot! In this order.

I. Why would you build forts, if the only ranged weapon is a pistol, or nothing? Because the only ranged weapon is a pistol! Yes! Build, to have more! Don't build pointless forts! Build specialized factories! For weapons, ammo, med packs, and more!
Who can only rush and lost his low damage bullets won't get a better weapon. But the team, who will build a machine gun factory, as fast as they can by helping each other, will welcome the first pistol rusher with hot new bulletstorm. After this, it would have a point to defend every building, and would have a point to capture them, not to grief them to nothing. This could be the best implementation for the good old "footprints-idea". Minecraft crafting in 3D, in-world. And with auto-wire-frames, everybody would know, where to put the next block, without any low-speed-typed word in the chat.

II. How can you destroy all the super-powered buildings now, if you have only a spade to scratch their very rooftops? Manufacture the appropriate tools in your factory! A well placed RPG rocket, some TNT, or the mighty mortars will do the dirty work. Who cares the 10 shovel-hit walls, if an explosion can make a nice hole through it for your assault.

III. With these overpowered weapons, who will build the standard weapon factories? The one, who want to defend himself from the beginning. Because to make explosives you will need a lot more ingredients, than for the standard weapons. With 1 gunpowder block you could fully mount up 5 soldiers with 50 bullets, or with 5 grenades, or with 3 RPG rockets, and so on. Basically the more damage weapon, the less you can have.

IV. Where are the ingredients come from? From discovering and scavenging the houses of the random villages over the map. Ok, that's enough, I'm in a dream world now. Go home Rusty Spade! You are drunk!

But hey! It's about time. Everything can be done from these. And I bet that would not only make a lot better reason for building, but would make an extremely unique FPBS, where you Build a lot and Shoot a lot in a lot of ways.

Ooops, thanks for reading. I'll rest now, in peace.

[H@nkthet@nk]

I would put a very little pseudo-physics in AoS:
The more block on the top of a block, the harder to move it.

In other words the more shovel hit to destroy it. Practically to destroy a 10 blocks high tower, you would need 10 hits in the bottom block, while only 1 in the top block. So, to destroy anything with a shovel, you would have to click the same amount, no matters where do you start it, top, bottom, or middle. R.I.P. griefing!
But this is only the beginning. I know that the "weight-based" building is huge advantage for the builders, but I have more.
I would get rid of the rifle-machine gun-shotgun-digging. They are pointless, and they are available from the beginning, so everybody who connects to a server can instantly destroy buildings from afar. The only beginner stuff for destroying would be the spade. Or. The only item in the beginning could be the spade alone, maybe with a low power pistol.

Ok, so I've removed literally everything from AoS. You can only build now, scratching the surface with your shovel, and kill one or two enemies with you pistol, if you are lucky.
What I give you after all? Everything! If you build and shoot! In this order.

I. Why would you build forts, if the only ranged weapon is a pistol, or nothing? Because the only ranged weapon is a pistol! Yes! Build, to have more! Don't build pointless forts! Build specialized factories! For weapons, ammo, med packs, and more!
Who can only rush and lost his low damage bullets won't get a better weapon. But the team, who will build a machine gun factory, as fast as they can by helping each other, will welcome the first pistol rusher with hot new bulletstorm. After this, it would have a point to defend every building, and would have a point to capture them, not to grief them to nothing. This could be the best implementation for the good old "footprints-idea". Minecraft crafting in 3D, in-world. And with auto-wire-frames, everybody would know, where to put the next block, without any low-speed-typed word in the chat.

II. How can you destroy all the super-powered buildings now, if you have only a spade to scratch their very rooftops? Manufacture the appropriate tools in your factory! A well placed RPG rocket, some TNT, or the mighty mortars will do the dirty work. Who cares the 10 shovel-hit walls, if an explosion can make a nice hole through it for your assault.

III. With these overpowered weapons, who will build the standard weapon factories? The one, who want to defend himself from the beginning. Because to make explosives you will need a lot more ingredients, than for the standard weapons. With 1 gunpowder block you could fully mount up 5 soldiers with 50 bullets, or with 5 grenades, or with 3 RPG rockets, and so on. Basically the more damage weapon, the less you can have.

IV. Where are the ingredients come from? From discovering and scavenging the houses of the random villages over the map. Ok, that's enough, I'm in a dream world now. Go home Rusty Spade! You are drunk!

But hey! It's about time. Everything can be done from these. And I bet that would not only make a lot better reason for building, but would make an extremely unique FPBS, where you Build a lot and Shoot a lot in a lot of ways.

Ooops, thanks for reading. I'll rest now, in peace.

... all of the ideas... I think you might have made a separate game mode altogether for AoS.

[Rusty Spade]

... all of the ideas... I think you might have made a separate game mode altogether for AoS.

Or a separate game... No-no-no! Just a simple game mode. Base mode? Factory mode? Build and shoot mode? I promise, I'll figure it out az least AFTER the mode is ready to play.