Well, This is Sad...

[Major Darkstar]

You know why no one cares anymore? Because the current state of build and shoot is complete and total ****. Awful maps like Hallway, where there's no construction, only destruction and spawn killing, and pinpoint, where there's no digging, no tunneling, are being overplayed and no one is playing good maps.

Many people around here are already aware that Hallway and similar maps are overplayed garbage.

What on earth is the admin's deal with .75? Did Ben hesitate to drop support for an older version pre Jagex? No, when he had a better version out he pushed it and made it mandatory. Old versions get replaced with newer versions. Why don't the admins get this?

.76 wasn't pushed properly, and died due to Jagex's intervention.

Plus, the admins here can't do anything about it. The server hosters (aloha, CoL, KLAP and the like) truly decide which version is more popular, and sadly they chose .75.

If Build and Shoot is to survive, we NEED to do something to help it do so. Sitting back and letting everything rot in front of Arena, hallway, and Babel with a broken balance is not the way to help BnS grow. This lack of action is killing BnS and will perhaps do so beyond recovery if the admins don't get off their ***es and do something. BnS will die as long as everything is allowed to rot. Do you want that to happen? I sure don't.

Again, you can't pin this on the staff. The player base and server hosters we have results in a screwed up situation.

Also, for the record, I had a few amazing games on pinpoint recently, where me and the whole team collaborated and built a huge sniper nest/fort at the front of our line. Not every match on said maps has to suck.
To add on, in the background, I've been advertising BNS/OS on my other regular forums. That's the least we can do instead of sit around and write walls of text about the obvious.

[Stuart98]

The staff controls which gets promoted more. There are enough .76 servers that if the admins promote .76, it won't be a huge issue with regards to player count. If the playerbase was on .76, the server admins would switch to that. As long as the playerbase is on .75, the server admins won't have any reason to do a thing unless they all miraculously switch, which simply isn't going to happen. It's up to the BnS admins.

[Pedroh]

Well .75 is complete shit in my opinion. I do to think they should hoghlight classic gen though

[Stuart98]

Build and Shoot is dying.

There. I've put that out there. Skeptical? Here's some evidence:

From inception until early July, our player count was growing. Then is suddenly started dropping and hasn't really risen since. 1.0 has fluctuated a lot more, but they've not been falling constantly. We have. There are a multitude of reasons for this. The biggest factor is the maps. Every newsletter you see half a dozen or so maps. That's great! Except for the fact that no one ever plays on them. I don't care how many maps are being made because nobody else cares. Everybody is playing Hallway except for the occasional pinpoint. When was the last time you saw a classic gen game with more than 10 players on it? When was the last time you saw a CTF or TDM that wasn't on Hallway or pinpoint and had more than 16 players on it? You don't see these things anymore. At all. If it isn't Hallway with its spawnkilling and no building it's pinpoint with its lack of tunneling. If it isn't Babel with its repetitive map design and obtrusive antigriefing measures, its Arena, a mode that is as far away from Ben's vision of AoS as you could go.

The balance on .75 was awful. SMG was OP, Shotty was useless, Rifle was inaccurate. Ben finished a version called .76 before working exclusively on Jagex that addressed these issues, but for some reason we have never made the switch. "It will fragment the playerbase!" What about destroying it? That's what happens. What's happening. I've been playing 1.0 a heck of a lot more than BnS right now. There's nothing for me here. More on what there is for me on 1.0 in a second. I'm not the only one. Have you seen Greasemonkey around lately? Of course not. He left 6 months ago because you didn't do anything.

We've come up with solutions in the past. Greasemonkey made iceball. It was a way to fix all of our problems. No one promoted it. We left it in a seldom visited corner of the forums and it died there. People have advocated for a switch to .76. All of the admins said that "splitting the community" wasn't the way to solve the problem. Well, if that isn't the way, what is? Would it even "split the community"? Tell me: Did Ben ever hold back on releasing an update other than .76, which was Jagex blocked, because it would "split the community"? Can you name one game that has ever not had an update forced because it would "Split the community"? No, of course not. The notion is the most ludicrous bunch of bull**** that I've ever seen. In video games, if you have a superior version of the game done that lacks major bugs, you release the censored update. You don't hold off for fear that it would "split the community". The vast majority wouldn't tell the difference. There is no reason not to do it.
Maps are another issue. People complain about the notion of being restricted on what maps they can play on.

Thing is, there's this thing called quality control. If a map is detrimental to gameplay, it shouldn't be allowed. Do you see people complaining about "insert bland map x" not being available in TF2 or CoD or BF or CS or Halo? No. Quality control is important. Accept it. Hallway and pinpoint are detrimental to the gameplay. Kill them.

Nothing is being done about this though. BnS Admins do nothing. Server admins do nothing. Greasemonkey did something... and was ignored. He was probably the most intelligent person on here, but no one listened to him. We didn't rally behind him. The admins didn't listen to him. And so he has left, in all likely hood never to return.
Don't bring up Openspades. Yvt left everything as is. All Openspades is is a graphical upgrade to .75. It fixes nothing.
Better graphics, nothing else special about it... Hm... That's... Familiar...

BnS has degraded. There hasn't been any improvement over the past few months, only the awful growing more prevalent and all that we loved about AoS being replaced by that which we hate.

1.0, on the other hand, has its TDM and CTF and awful modes, yes, but it has classic servers with a consistent playercount of 20+ people. The Shotty and SMG are disabled by default but can be enabled on custom servers. Yeah, many of the maps have spawnkilling, but it has building. It has shooting. It has tunneling. Show me WW1 or Heisville or even To the Bridge being played on .75. Better yet, show it to me without noskill SMGs.
Oh wait. You don't. Because you never see people playing half decent maps on .75 anymore and .75 is .75.

The game has evolved to the point where the Steam version gives a better, more classic experience than BnS, something made to provide that experience. If we have let that which we made BnS to escape from be better at doing that then BnS itself, then BnS has failed utterly.

How do I propose fixing this?

There are two options.

1. Switch to .76. Now. Promote it. Try to eliminate .75 as much as possible. Make sure that all new players flock to .76. Encourage server admins to switch over. If needed, remove .75 games from the server list. At the same time, ban anything remotely becoming of Hallway and Pinpoint. Remove Arena. If people want that, they can go play CoD.
2. Focus efforts on reviving Iceball or making an Openspades fork with ideal gameplay. Promote that heavily and try to remove .75. Point new players towards Iceball or this OS fork. At the same time, disallow the bad maps and modes like in option 1.

Or you could go with option 3 and let BnS die because the admins were too obstinate and stupid to take a risk and try to save the game that we all love. It's your choice. Save BnS or let it crumble.

[danhezee]

Wait, I thought this thread was about classic gen not 0.76.

If you like 0.76 play 0.76. Seriously, this is directed at everyone that wants to drop 0.75 and "officially" support 0.76. You guys should all get together and play 0.76. Make a thread for it in the events section. I'll be there, I'll play with you. Do it on a public server. Play it until you feel content. Randoms will join, it will become popular and forever be at the top of the server list. If it doesn't work, try again. The only way a 0.76 server is going to get popular is you guys playing on it. So work together and make that happen.

If you don't like the map rotation, either host a server yourself or ask server hosters to host maps you like.

If you don't like the game mode, same thing as above, host a server or convince a server hoster to host a gamemode you like.

You have the tools to make that which you think should be popular; popular. You need to use them.


Edit, I merged the "Well, This is Sad" and "Let's have a Frank Discussion" together

[Fleischgeruch]

Just because the admins aren't doing what you want them to doesn't mean they're stupid or don't have any initiative.
If you think that 1.0 gives you a better AoS experience, by all means, play 1.0 instead, we won't perish and burn in agony without your mighty guidance.
Fyi GreaseMonkey is still around and has been since he 'left', but good job making uninformed conclusions about people you don't know.
I've always despised hallway and pinpoint and their variations. You know what I did about that? This might be a bit tough to comprehend:
I just didn't play on servers hosting those maps 24/7.
Tl;dr nothing is going to fail miserably because the admins didn't enforce your favorite maps and gamemodes. Crying about it is easier than anything, though, right?

[ReubenMcHawk]

Build and Shoot is dying.

There. I've put that out there. Skeptical? Here's some evidence:

That looks pretty stagnant, not really dying if you ask me. And it's expected that people eventually get bored of the game and quit playing.

Also this isn't that much of a cutting-edge idea, there's a new topic about the "pending crisis" every week, usually with some abrasive statement leading it off as well.

From inception until early July, our player count was growing. Then is suddenly started dropping and hasn't really risen since. 1.0 has fluctuated a lot more, but they've not been falling constantly. We have. There are a multitude of reasons for this.

The main one being that the game is still in development and promoted on a large PC gaming platform.

The biggest factor is the maps. Every newsletter you see half a dozen or so maps. That's great! Except for the fact that no one ever plays on them. I don't care how many maps are being made because nobody else cares.

Then play them. Get other people to play them with you. Organize an event, get a server, promote it. Don't just sit around and make forum posts about how the admins are lazy or whatever.

Everybody is playing Hallway except for the occasional pinpoint. When was the last time you saw a classic gen game with more than 10 players on it? When was the last time you saw a CTF or TDM that wasn't on Hallway or pinpoint and had more than 16 players on it? You don't see these things anymore. At all. If it isn't Hallway with its spawnkilling and no building it's pinpoint with its lack of tunneling. If it isn't Babel with its repetitive map design and obtrusive antigriefing measures, its Arena, a mode that is as far away from Ben's vision of AoS as you could go.

And here we enter the usual "this is my subjective opinion on which maps/gamemodes are good" part. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hallway or Pinpoint. You don't have to like playing it, but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with them. Same goes for Arena, also worth addressing that you have no room speaking for Ben Aksoy and what his vision of the game was. In fact I'd wager that openness and customization are more what the game is based around.

The balance on .75 was awful. SMG was OP, Shotty was useless, Rifle was inaccurate. Ben finished a version called .76 before working exclusively on Jagex that addressed these issues, but for some reason we have never made the switch. "It will fragment the playerbase!" What about destroying it? That's what happens. What's happening. I've been playing 1.0 a heck of a lot more than BnS right now. There's nothing for me here. More on what there is for me on 1.0 in a second. I'm not the only one. Have you seen Greasemonkey around lately? Of course not. He left 6 months ago because you didn't do anything.

It's worth pointing out that .76 was never finished. It was released over IRC in release candidates for testing, but the development cut out before it was ever officially released. By the time Jagex pulled the plug on it, the server list was hosting .75 servers.

People have advocated for a switch to .76. All of the admins said that "splitting the community" wasn't the way to solve the problem. Well, if that isn't the way, what is? Would it even "split the community"?

Here's the question, what should they do with the people that enjoy .75? Just tell them to deal with it? The reason the admins aren't doing any "switch" is because they want everyone to play whatever they want to. The entire reason this website exists is because people were mad at Jagex for trying to enforce these arbitrary limits. They'd be hypocrites to do something like that.

Tell me: Did Ben ever hold back on releasing an update other than .76, which was Jagex blocked, because it would "split the community"? Can you name one game that has ever not had an update forced because it would "Split the community"? No, of course not. The notion is the most ludicrous bunch of bull**** that I've ever seen.

Yes, but we're kind of in a unique situation. The game's development was stunted in the process of trying to release .76, but it was never officially released. You can't compare this to another game in steady development releasing update after update.

In video games, if you have a superior version of the game done that lacks major bugs, you release the censored update. You don't hold off for fear that it would "split the community". The vast majority wouldn't tell the difference. There is no reason not to do it.

There's some discussion to be had regarding .76 being superior. And if you wanted .76 to be officially released, then maybe you're getting upset on the wrong forums, because it's not the BnS admins' fault.

Maps are another issue. People complain about the notion of being restricted on what maps they can play on.

Because that's exactly what you're trying to do. You treat Hallway and Pinpoint as the cancer of the game for the sole purpose of "people play this and enjoy it, and I don't". Also I'm looking at the server list right now, and of all the servers with 10+ players, there's four Hallway servers and one Pinpoint server. Mind you this is 10 AM CST on a Tuesday, so people are probably at school right now. Either way, the numbers show that this is what the majority likes.

Thing is, there's this thing called quality control. If a map is detrimental to gameplay, it shouldn't be allowed. Do you see people complaining about "insert bland map x" not being available in TF2 or CoD or BF or CS or Halo? No. Quality control is important. Accept it. Hallway and pinpoint are detrimental to the gameplay. Kill them.

So all of the people that love those maps should lose them because...? You don't like them?

Nothing is being done about this though. BnS Admins do nothing. Server admins do nothing. Greasemonkey did something... and was ignored. He was probably the most intelligent person on here, but no one listened to him. We didn't rally behind him. The admins didn't listen to him. And so he has left, in all likely hood never to return.

It's weird how you're using Greasemonkey as a martyr to push your "cause", I doubt he'd approve of that.

Don't bring up Openspades. Yvt left everything as is. All Openspades is is a graphical upgrade to .75. It fixes nothing.
Better graphics, nothing else special about it... Hm... That's... Familiar...

When did this site turn into Fox News? Seriously, that last sentence is pandering as fuck. There's nothing wrong with OpenSpades. If you don't like it, topo is working on doing some upgrades to it, go talk with him about what you want to see changed.

BnS has degraded. There hasn't been any improvement over the past few months, only the awful growing more prevalent and all that we loved about AoS being replaced by that which we hate.

It's because all there's been in terms of "change" is whiny forum posts instead of actually trying to take any action.

1.0, on the other hand, has its TDM and CTF and awful modes, yes, but it has classic servers with a consistent playercount of 20+ people. The Shotty and SMG are disabled by default but can be enabled on custom servers. Yeah, many of the maps have spawnkilling, but it has building. It has shooting. It has tunneling. Show me WW1 or Heisville or even To the Bridge being played on .75. Better yet, show it to me without noskill SMGs.
Oh wait. You don't. Because you never see people playing half decent maps on .75 anymore and .75 is .75.

Again, if you want something done, do something. You don't need the admins to get people to start playing a game.

The game has evolved to the point where the Steam version gives a better, more classic experience than BnS, something made to provide that experience. If we have let that which we made BnS to escape from be better at doing that then BnS itself, then BnS has failed utterly.

That's an opinion.

How do I propose fixing this?

There are two options.

1. Switch to .76. Now. Promote it. Try to eliminate .75 as much as possible. Make sure that all new players flock to .76. Encourage server admins to switch over. If needed, remove .75 games from the server list. At the same time, ban anything remotely becoming of Hallway and Pinpoint. Remove Arena. If people want that, they can go play CoD.
2. Focus efforts on reviving Iceball or making an Openspades fork with ideal gameplay. Promote that heavily and try to remove .75. Point new players towards Iceball or this OS fork. At the same time, disallow the bad maps and modes like in option 1.

Or you could go with option 3 and let BnS die because the admins were too obstinate and stupid to take a risk and try to save the game that we all love. It's your choice. Save BnS or let it crumble.

If everyone plays .76 long enough then they'll just get tired of it after a while, same as with .75. Also fuck that "if they want Arena then go play CoD" thing, let people play what they want. If you don't like Arena, then there's this magic thing you can do called "don't play it".

This post is nothing new, just another Arkger-tier alarmist rant about how "the community is dying and I am here to save it", and yet another one strengthened entirely by the idea of your personal opinions being fact. If you don't like the game anymore then please just leave, don't stick around to whine about how the admins aren't banning everyone from playing what you don't like.

[Arkger]

This post is nothing new, just another Arkger-tier alarmist rant about how "the community is dying and I am here to save it", and yet another one strengthened entirely by the idea of your personal opinions being fact. If you don't like the game anymore then please just leave, don't stick around to whine about how the admins aren't banning everyone from playing what you don't like.

How cute. <3

Build and Shoot is dying.

There. I've put that out there. Skeptical? Here's some evidence:

From inception until early July, our player count was growing. Then is suddenly started dropping and hasn't really risen since. 1.0 has fluctuated a lot more, but they've not been falling constantly. We have. There are a multitude of reasons for this. The biggest factor is the maps. Every newsletter you see half a dozen or so maps. That's great! Except for the fact that no one ever plays on them. I don't care how many maps are being made because nobody else cares. Everybody is playing Hallway except for the occasional pinpoint. When was the last time you saw a classic gen game with more than 10 players on it? When was the last time you saw a CTF or TDM that wasn't on Hallway or pinpoint and had more than 16 players on it? You don't see these things anymore. At all. If it isn't Hallway with its spawnkilling and no building it's pinpoint with its lack of tunneling. If it isn't Babel with its repetitive map design and obtrusive antigriefing measures, its Arena, a mode that is as far away from Ben's vision of AoS as you could go.

The balance on .75 was awful. SMG was OP, Shotty was useless, Rifle was inaccurate. Ben finished a version called .76 before working exclusively on Jagex that addressed these issues, but for some reason we have never made the switch. "It will fragment the playerbase!" What about destroying it? That's what happens. What's happening. I've been playing 1.0 a heck of a lot more than BnS right now. There's nothing for me here. More on what there is for me on 1.0 in a second. I'm not the only one. Have you seen Greasemonkey around lately? Of course not. He left 6 months ago because you didn't do anything.

We've come up with solutions in the past. Greasemonkey made iceball. It was a way to fix all of our problems. No one promoted it. We left it in a seldom visited corner of the forums and it died there. People have advocated for a switch to .76. All of the admins said that "splitting the community" wasn't the way to solve the problem. Well, if that isn't the way, what is? Would it even "split the community"? Tell me: Did Ben ever hold back on releasing an update other than .76, which was Jagex blocked, because it would "split the community"? Can you name one game that has ever not had an update forced because it would "Split the community"? No, of course not. The notion is the most ludicrous bunch of bull**** that I've ever seen. In video games, if you have a superior version of the game done that lacks major bugs, you release the censored update. You don't hold off for fear that it would "split the community". The vast majority wouldn't tell the difference. There is no reason not to do it.
Maps are another issue. People complain about the notion of being restricted on what maps they can play on.

Thing is, there's this thing called quality control. If a map is detrimental to gameplay, it shouldn't be allowed. Do you see people complaining about "insert bland map x" not being available in TF2 or CoD or BF or CS or Halo? No. Quality control is important. Accept it. Hallway and pinpoint are detrimental to the gameplay. Kill them.

Nothing is being done about this though. BnS Admins do nothing. Server admins do nothing. Greasemonkey did something... and was ignored. He was probably the most intelligent person on here, but no one listened to him. We didn't rally behind him. The admins didn't listen to him. And so he has left, in all likely hood never to return.
Don't bring up Openspades. Yvt left everything as is. All Openspades is is a graphical upgrade to .75. It fixes nothing.
Better graphics, nothing else special about it... Hm... That's... Familiar...

BnS has degraded. There hasn't been any improvement over the past few months, only the awful growing more prevalent and all that we loved about AoS being replaced by that which we hate.

1.0, on the other hand, has its TDM and CTF and awful modes, yes, but it has classic servers with a consistent playercount of 20+ people. The Shotty and SMG are disabled by default but can be enabled on custom servers. Yeah, many of the maps have spawnkilling, but it has building. It has shooting. It has tunneling. Show me WW1 or Heisville or even To the Bridge being played on .75. Better yet, show it to me without noskill SMGs.
Oh wait. You don't. Because you never see people playing half decent maps on .75 anymore and .75 is .75.

The game has evolved to the point where the Steam version gives a better, more classic experience than BnS, something made to provide that experience. If we have let that which we made BnS to escape from be better at doing that then BnS itself, then BnS has failed utterly.

How do I propose fixing this?

There are two options.

1. Switch to .76. Now. Promote it. Try to eliminate .75 as much as possible. Make sure that all new players flock to .76. Encourage server admins to switch over. If needed, remove .75 games from the server list. At the same time, ban anything remotely becoming of Hallway and Pinpoint. Remove Arena. If people want that, they can go play CoD.
2. Focus efforts on reviving Iceball or making an Openspades fork with ideal gameplay. Promote that heavily and try to remove .75. Point new players towards Iceball or this OS fork. At the same time, disallow the bad maps and modes like in option 1.

Or you could go with option 3 and let BnS die because the admins were too obstinate and stupid to take a risk and try to save the game that we all love. It's your choice. Save BnS or let it crumble.

From inception until early July, our player count was growing. Then is suddenly started dropping and hasn't really risen since. 1.0 has fluctuated a lot more, but they've not been falling constantly. We have. There are a multitude of reasons for this. The biggest factor is the maps. Every newsletter you see half a dozen or so maps. That's great! Except for the fact that no one ever plays on them. I don't care how many maps are being made because nobody else cares. Everybody is playing Hallway except for the occasional pinpoint. When was the last time you saw a classic gen game with more than 10 players on it? When was the last time you saw a CTF or TDM that wasn't on Hallway or pinpoint and had more than 16 players on it? You don't see these things anymore. At all. If it isn't Hallway with its spawnkilling and no building it's pinpoint with its lack of tunneling. If it isn't Babel with its repetitive map design and obtrusive antigriefing measures, its Arena, a mode that is as far away from Ben's vision of AoS as you could go.

Well, obviously a game that gets updated will have more players than a game that can't. The newsletter thing is pretty true though. Classicgen is rarely played anymore, but that isn't something you cannot fix with an event or two. I for instance, hosted one a couple months back, may do one again. As for the CTF and TDM thing, mCTF has decent maps with decent amounts of people, but I get bored after playing ten minutes, not my cup of tea. I agree with the last sentence though, I mostly hate everything that is hosted these days, and can't play for more than a couple minutes.

The balance on .75 was awful. SMG was OP, Shotty was useless, Rifle was inaccurate. Ben finished a version called .76 before working exclusively on Jagex that addressed these issues, but for some reason we have never made the switch. "It will fragment the playerbase!" What about destroying it? That's what happens. What's happening. I've been playing 1.0 a heck of a lot more than BnS right now. There's nothing for me here. More on what there is for me on 1.0 in a second. I'm not the only one. Have you seen Greasemonkey around lately? Of course not. He left 6 months ago because you didn't do anything.

Ofc balance on .75 is horrible. This is something we already know. Keep in mind that .75 was a simple stepping stone and was Ben just teasing around with settings. I highly highly highly highly doubt that .75 was supposed to be in the spotlight as long as it is. .76 has the same story, just doesn't have that spotlight yet. The way you worded the whole "1.0" story makes it seem like GM left for Jagex, when in reality he was fucking tired of no one doing anything, or helping him with Iceball. What is in 1.0 isn't quite classicgen, but it's pretty close, I guess. I just don't like 1.0 enough to touch it. If there is nothing for you here, Why are you here...?

We've come up with solutions in the past. Greasemonkey made iceball. It was a way to fix all of our problems. No one promoted it. We left it in a seldom visited corner of the forums and it died there. People have advocated for a switch to .76. All of the admins said that "splitting the community" wasn't the way to solve the problem. Well, if that isn't the way, what is? Would it even "split the community"? Tell me: Did Ben ever hold back on releasing an update other than .76, which was Jagex blocked, because it would "split the community"? Can you name one game that has ever not had an update forced because it would "Split the community"? No, of course not. The notion is the most ludicrous bunch of bull**** that I've ever seen. In video games, if you have a superior version of the game done that lacks major bugs, you release the censored update. You don't hold off for fear that it would "split the community". The vast majority wouldn't tell the difference. There is no reason not to do it.
Maps are another issue. People complain about the notion of being restricted on what maps they can play on.

GM's Iceball was something the community didn't do enough about, tbh. But IIRC, he stopped development quite a while ago. The whole "splitting the community" argument is iffy, matters what they are talking about. .75 to .76 is super easy, but voxlap to OS is another problem in itself. So many people have already advocated .75 to .76 that if it was going to happen, it already would have unfortunately.

Thing is, there's this thing called quality control. If a map is detrimental to gameplay, it shouldn't be allowed. Do you see people complaining about "insert bland map x" not being available in TF2 or CoD or BF or CS or Halo? No. Quality control is important. Accept it. Hallway and pinpoint are detrimental to the gameplay. Kill them.

Nothing is being done about this though. BnS Admins do nothing. Server admins do nothing. Greasemonkey did something... and was ignored. He was probably the most intelligent person on here, but no one listened to him. We didn't rally behind him. The admins didn't listen to him. And so he has left, in all likely hood never to return.
Don't bring up Openspades. Yvt left everything as is. All Openspades is is a graphical upgrade to .75. It fixes nothing.
Better graphics, nothing else special about it... Hm... That's... Familiar...

You see, making maps for "BF" or "CoD" is so much harder than making maps for AoS. That's why you have to PAY for more maps. Just because you don't like Hallway or Pinpoint (I don't really like them either), doesn't mean they should die. Perhaps make something that will make people never look at them again? The GM thing is slightly true, but I doubt he will agree. Also, you obviously don't know shit about OpenSpades if you are comparing it to 1.0.

BnS has degraded. There hasn't been any improvement over the past few months, only the awful growing more prevalent and all that we loved about AoS being replaced by that which we hate.

1.0, on the other hand, has its TDM and CTF and awful modes, yes, but it has classic servers with a consistent playercount of 20+ people. The Shotty and SMG are disabled by default but can be enabled on custom servers. Yeah, many of the maps have spawnkilling, but it has building. It has shooting. It has tunneling. Show me WW1 or Heisville or even To the Bridge being played on .75. Better yet, show it to me without noskill SMGs.
Oh wait. You don't. Because you never see people playing half decent maps on .75 anymore and .75 is .75.

The game has evolved to the point where the Steam version gives a better, more classic experience than BnS, something made to provide that experience. If we have let that which we made BnS to escape from be better at doing that then BnS itself, then BnS has failed utterly.

Of course BnS will degrade. It has nothing new, nothing exciting, besides OS, which is only a visual upgrade. Your second paragraph is actually a pretty clever Point Of View. However, Classic mode on 1.0 is still faster paced than .75 and .76, so not the same experience. That 3rd paragraph is a whopper, I'll give you that. But it's still not the same experience.

1. Switch to .76. Now. Promote it. Try to eliminate .75 as much as possible. Make sure that all new players flock to .76. Encourage server admins to switch over. If needed, remove .75 games from the server list. At the same time, ban anything remotely becoming of Hallway and Pinpoint. Remove Arena. If people want that, they can go play CoD.
2. Focus efforts on reviving Iceball or making an Openspades fork with ideal gameplay. Promote that heavily and try to remove .75. Point new players towards Iceball or this OS fork. At the same time, disallow the bad maps and modes like in option 1.

Or you could go with option 3 and let BnS die because the admins were too obstinate and stupid to take a risk and try to save the game that we all love. It's your choice. Save BnS or let it crumble.

1. Join the .76 club lel. That has been promoted so many times, and has never suceeded.
2. Talk to Topo, he is making a fork.
3. Well, BnS won't "die" until OpenSpades "dies", and everyone gives up in the community. Till then, we are declining, but we aren't dying.

[Stuart98]

Wait, I thought this thread was about classic gen not 0.76.

The mega post was a separate thread that a mod merged with this one for whatever reason.

[Fleischgeruch]

Wait, I thought this thread was about classic gen not 0.76.

The mega post was a separate thread that a mod merged with this one for whatever reason.

Nice comeback to all the counter-arguments that have been presented to you. And if you actually bothered to read, you'd see that

Edit, I merged the "Well, This is Sad" and "Let's have a Frank Discussion" together

[ReubenMcHawk]

Classicgen and 0.76 are always what get lumped together by the people pining for the "good old days". They're usually the same ones blindly hating on the SMG because it's become somewhat more of a "meme" than an actual complaint now.

[Eimis]

In my eyes 0.75 and 0.76 are pretty much the same, just the weapon stats are a bit different. I don't see why do people hate 0.75 so much when it's the same as 0.76. What BnS really needs is this: http://buildandshoot.com/viewtopic.php? ... 1&start=15. Everyone feels that the earlier versions were better because there were better maps and teamwork involved. Now, on a usual pub servers maps are shit and 5/6 of the players don't even know how to write anything.

People would stop bitching about the game versions if there there was an opportunity to play competitive AoS with actually good people instead of shitty pinpoint/hallway with random braziliaks. It has been talked about a lot of times, not only on that thread. I'd really love to contribute to the PUG system, but unfortunately I don't know shit about coding and it would take a long time for me to learn it.

The community is dying not because the game is not changing, it's because people don't get to play the game the way they want. And that is because the people in this community are either
1) too lazy to do shit
2) don't know how to do shit.
Apart from a few people, that is.

[ReubenMcHawk]

Usually people just think that newer = better. As for people being unable to play how they want, limiting maps and gamemodes would only do the same thing just to other people.

[Eimis]

Reuben, if that post was reffering to me, I didn't say we should get rid of noob gamemodes/maps, I only said we should have PUGs so we can enjoy some more serious gameplay.