Build and Shoot

Hey guys, so as some of you are aware, I've been more or less spamming the Jagex forums with my opinions over the last few months... no I don't really expect to accomplish anything, but I do feel that I'm making a bit of progress. As we all know, Sally likes open dialogues as long as they are private... anyway, I've been creating threads on http://www.aceofspades.com named Open Dialogue. I've been trying to keep the amount of flaming and spam there to a minimum. However, it would be more effective if it had more people weighing in and giving honest opinions and useful suggestions. Don't focus on the past... focus on the future... personally, I don't ever plan on switching over to 1.0, but I'd rather not have two completely separate communities either... they'll just choke each other out in the long run. At this stage, this is just experimental... I'm pretty sure that Jagex is just too stuck in their ways and protocols to listen to reason, but I'm shoving reason down their throats anyway. Chime in if you would.

http://www.aceofspades.com/forums/showt ... nd-2/page3

Edit: Jagex forums are suddenly in maintenance... could be a while before they are back up... the thread i linked may already be locked or deleted... but that's when I create Open Dialogue Round 3 and start cross quoting... to be honest, I have no idea what I'm trying to do here... it's an impossible goal that neither community seems to want any part of... however I think it would be mutually beneficial.

I PMed Sally regarding that post of hers and she sent me her Skype name to talk. Anything I should bring up?

Edit: I didn't think this would need saying, but don't fucking flame in that thread. <_< DrDeuce just did, and all that's going to do is give them another reason to lock it.

I honestly don't see why you still post there.

HoboHob wrote:

I honestly don't see why you still post there.

I get bored...

Yeah, flaming isn't needed... I've done enough of that for everyone hahaha

So I have two goals that I wouldn't mind seeing accomplished here:

A. Somehow we get through to them and they would begin to tolerate this community instead of trying to hide the fact that it exists. Really, the only way I can see that happening is if they do make some amends to their private server policy and cease the hostile attitude towards us without expecting a complete change of focus to the steam version. I believe this would be mutually beneficial for both games as you would get a higher rate of cross over players (both ways), less hate and flaming (from us) and more community diversity and creativity both ways.

B. Prove once and for all that these communities are 100% incompatible and that the fault rests entirely with Jagex... if Sally can't respect an honest attempt at open dialogue, an open community such as B&S should have nothing to do with them anyway. This previously has been assumed, however I'd like to put it to test.

As Development mechanics go, NuSpades is very stick based. If one class is proven to be overpowered, they remove strategies rather than providing carrots for the weaker classes or poor players (If I can snipe some poor sod many times in a row, then I'm happy to light up like a Christmas Tree for him. Make the neon light 20 feet tall and visible at the maximum draw distance, whatever, but If I've not killed you at least 5 times in a life then you don't need to know where I am.)

Old AoS gets treated like a competitor rather than a great way to build a player base. I've lurked here, found all the AoS stuff I needed to play for free and, generally, used B&S as a reason to give money to Jagex. The fact that we're this far down the line and I'm using my first post here to say that I'm now regretting my purchase should say a lot. (I'm happy to roll back a few updates, maybe playtest new changes.. but I'm not happy having arbitrary changes made to a game I've paid for and no longer recognise)

I moved the topic to 1.0 general discussion.

Sally has posted and locked another open dialogue thread. It is very hard to have an Open Dialogue if everything gets locked. There are a lot of points to discuss from all 3 of her final posts. I have taken the time to list them below. Lets discuss them here, lets get her to come here and openly discuss them.

Sally's final post from Open Dialogue Round 2 wrote:

The anti Jagex, anti community, non constructive hate rants & constant and blatant non stop advertising of another site kinda led to us putting more time to address a_girl than talking to those giving constructive feedback (negative or positive) + the fact that there was little evidence of them actually contributing to the community or playing the game so we took the steps required at the time and sent mail to this extent. To then ban evade a permanent ban and make umpteen alt account, which is also a break in our terms of service lead to instant subsequent perm bans...yes.

I'm pretty sure this is fairly common practice, and ban evasion was penalised within the player run communities of Ace.

I clearly stated that if such a player had taken on our feedback toned things down and contacted us asking for another chance I may well have given it. I would much rather not ban people but where it's wasting more time than the value adding to the community we have to make decisions even when they are tough.

Past is past, we've made changes, and I intend to get things back on course. I want to build the Community Team, give them what they need to undertake roles, empower them to run with the freedom, and lead this community. This is not something I could do when people are spam bombing hate and calling anyone who wants to help a 'Jagex Shill' this just means no one wants to contribute and a vicious cycle begins. Doesn't help anyone.

I need people who want to sort this out on side, they are not Jagex staff or paid just have the best interests of the community at heart, they will be expected to not hate on us and behave respectfully, but by no means are silenced. They are their own people with their own opinions I don't expect positivity, and sometimes they might get angry about things, this is passion and I will listen, it's all valuable stuff.

I manage the overall community but I don't run the community, I 'lead from the back' supporting the passions of these empowered individuals.

For the next batches of updates I hope we will be in a better position to relaunch the team and start fixing things.

We're not there yet, and I know what the issues are. I will keep fighting the good fight advocating the community voice, all I ask is that if any of you want to be a part of building this community by representing you preferred area of community then let me know so that when the time comes I can contact you. It won't suit everyone I know, but if you have something to offer or add to the community then please talk to me.

Sally's final post from Open Dialogue wrote:

No, it will be a private dialogue. ;-)

a_girl, I am not sure how many times I can explain that the reason your accounts are banned is due to your original perm ban, which was explained at the time. Ever since you have been ban evading.

It has nothing to do with anything else.

If you had come back and showed any sort of change of behaviour the first time I would have reviewed things, but you came back on multiple accounts openly shouting about how you are ban evading, linking all your accounts.

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Zone of Aces is NOT controlled by us they are a genuine fansite created by a group of people who wanted to support AoS. Simply stating otherwise does not actual mean what your saying is true.

Of course I will happily support any fansite who positively supports this community.

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Player owned servers is not something we have as things stand, and we have communicated around this on many occasions stating that we are looking into ways we can give you more freedom to play the way you want.

Sally's final post from a New Hack Out wrote:

Well it's locked now.

I will be issuing you with yet another perm ban a_girl as you clearly haven't read the site rules or the agreement you agreed to when joining the forums. You are being instant banned because your main was issued this punishment. It's against our terms to then create masses of alt accounts and ban evade.

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I really am not that bothered about BnS signatures, but I will remove them if I see them as they are just advertising links. I would likely remove any equivalent signature I came across that I deemed to be advertising in this manner. I don't ban anyone for this so I am not sure why you are implying I do? I might take away your signature permissions if you refuse to listen to warnings, which imo really isn't that unreasonable.

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Let me also assure you that I am aware of what a small group of people are doing within the game and it cannot be justified by the excuses given. I am aware there was some poor communication initially, but does this really mean it's OK to ruin the game for other people? No.

This sort of behaviour is being investigated carefully as it's a sensitive matter and I would not like to see harsh precautions put in place as first resort, as it may be detrimental to legitimate community members. I know some of you have voiced concerns about this sort of thing happening. We would like to aim to put a stop to the issue at hand as a whole, rather than simply ban people outright. This isn't a quick process, and although we have managed to put a stop to some of the exploits, this group of individuals are continuing to ruin the experience for the AoS community just to try and prove some sort of point?

So to the individuals involved, in the mean time if you want to talk hit me up, if you have grievances let's discuss them. I'm appealing to your better nature right here, & now, and am willing to give you a chance to start a dialogue with us.

I really don't get why she won't let the community voice their opinions. She's adamant that any discussions will be in private, but in all instances I've seen, these discussions have been less than ideal, when they actually replied.